LLM GUIDE Blogs > George Washington's LLM in International Law
George Washington's LLM in International Law
REFLECTIONS: One year after completing my LL.M
By droit.est.philosophie in George Washington's LLM in International Law on May 9, 2008
Dear Readers,ONE YEAR LATER I have been emailed by so many blog-readers lately that I am inspired to add one more post. I will begin this post by attempting to answer the one question that more readers have asked me than any other: "was it worth it?" Then I will turn to the second most-asked question: "what have you been doing since you graduated?"Was the LL.M. worth it?Yes, in every possible way- it was worth it for me. Not only did I attain an advanced degree from one of the finest law schools in the world, write a thesis that is soon to be published, make connections and friends with people from all around the world, but the degree paid for itself in less than a year. I know it's hard to believe that the $50,000+ I took out in loans for the GW LL.M. paid itself off in less than a year, but its true thanks to the opportunities that the District of Columbia (Washington DC) has to offer for legal professionals.When trying to determine whether to do the LL.M. I kept thinking back to something one of my J.D. professors said. "Take the Risk!" was the exact phrase, I can't exactly remember the context of her saying the phrase but it has reverberated in my mind over and over in every opportunity that has presented itself since that time. I offer the same advice to anyone who stumbles on this post "Take the Risk!" What have I been doing since graduation? Well, immediately after graduation I began my bar review studies. The previous year I passed the NC bar so I already knew what I would have to do to pass the Virginia Bar Exam. I set a study schedule as follows, working Monday through Saturday with Sundays off:6:00am wake up; 6am-7am coffee and breakfast; 7am-12pm do practice Multistate questions; 12pm-2pm exercise; 2pm-3pm shower and break time; 3pm-6pm study for the essay portion; 6pm-8pm or so do research for my part-time jobWithin one week of taking the Virginia Bar Exam I was offered a temp-job at a large DC law firm doing primarily review for a huge international antitrust case. This temp job lasted almost eight months. It was grueling; I worked literally 70-80 hour work weeks, and even did one 100 hour work week. Amidst the blur that was these eight months, I remember in mid-October I found out that I passed the Virginia bar and was waived into the District of Columbia Bar (by my scores on NC bar from the previous year) but was too busy and making too much money to justify applying for jobs in Virginia at that time.Upon the completion of the above contract, I applied for jobs and started interviewing. I must have had over a fifteen interviews and a handful of offers over the coming months. While going through this extended interview process, I took on another temp-job at a different large DC firm. This one was regarding an acquisition of a telecommunications company and only lasted six weeks. It paid a little less and the hours were just as long, so I was quite happy for the short contract.After the acquisition contract ended, I took on one more contract (temp-job) with the first large DC firm I worked with. It was another antitrust case and lasted a couple of months. While employed there, I finally accepted a position as a part-time associate at a boutique Virginia law firm, and then a part-time attorney position also with a DC firm. At this point in time, I'm litigating in court in Virginia for the Virginia firm and doing research for the firm in DC simultaneously. Outside of work, I have been very active in the DC legal and trade community. I've been attending many section events, organization meetings in DC and VA, and networking events. By the way, having the LL.M. doesn't hurt for social networking either.All of this while trying to maintain a positive social and personal life. It's not easy, and I'm often working late into the night...
As always, any blog-readers out there, feel free to email me with any questions about GW. It may take some time, but I will respond to you.
Maybe I will post again next year...good luck with your journey...
droit
JOBS, the BAR EXAM, and The THESIS
By droit.est.philosophie in George Washington's LLM in International Law on Mar 22, 2007
Jobs:Since Ivan covered the job-hunt methodology in his usual meticulous manner, I will only emphasize his intelligent point that you must start searching immediately upon beginning the program or, even better, before you matriculate. If you are looking for a judicial clerkship or for work in a large firm, they do their hiring almost exclusively in the months of August through November. Many LL.M. candidates, including me, are avidly pursing post-graduate career opportunities at present. Perhaps I will post at the end of the year where I and my classmates have found employment.
The BAR Exam:I have received more questions about the BAR exam from blog-readers than any other subject, so I have included some highly relevant points regarding the most pernicious of all examinations you will ever endure in your life.
One of the best moments of this year was when I received that letter in the mail stating, among other things, that I passed the Bar exam. I was so happy that the three grueling years of law school had reached their summit. I jumped up and down, ran across the room, hugged my lady, and then drank booze until I passed out. It was exhilarating and thrilling.
The path to the BAR is a little different for everyone. As a U.S. law student I was immediately eligible to sit for any Bar exam in the country upon the completion of my studies. It is a little different, however, for LL.M. students with foreign law degrees. If you possess a LL.M. from an accredited U.S. law school (such as George Washington), you are immediately eligible upon the completion of the requisite program of study to sit for the Bar exam in either New York (NY) or California (CA), and only NY or CA. Other states allow LL.M. students with foreign law degrees who have taken a number of other U.S. law courses to sit for their Bar exams, but these requirements vary by the individual state. Most U.S. states, to the best of my knowledge, require a U.S. J.D.
The Bar exam is a two or three day examination. The Bar exam is two days in NY and most states; whereas it is three days in CA. Each day is circa six hours of grueling work and a combination (in most states) of the MBE, a six hour multiple choice section, and six hour of variant combinations of short essay and long essay questions.
Most students take a Bar review course (sometimes called bar preparatory or prep courses) such as BARBRI and PMBR (sometimes both). These bar review courses are very expensive but are almost essential to someone who seriously wants to pass the Bar exam. If you do not take a Bar prep course of some kind, I sincerely believe that you will be at a serious disadvantage (because everyone else takes a bar review course). Without a bar review course, it is not impossible to pass, but almost impossible particularly for foreign law degree holders. But, again, they are very expensive.
Once you pass the BAR exam in one state, you get sworn into office in court and then are immediately eligible to practice law but (aside from minor reciprocity/ petitions for one time admissions) only in the state in which you passed the bar. For example, if you take the NY bar you can only practice in NY and not in DC or elsewhere unless if you are also admitted in DC.
I am taking another bar exam this summer, so I can practice in two states. I do not look forward to it, but, alas, it is life.
The Thesis:Not every LL.M. program in the country has a thesis requirement, but the majority of the U.S. LL.M. programs at George Washington do. The thesis is a 100+ page work of writing, and is the pinnacle of the LL.M. experience. The thesis schedule generally goes something as follows:
In the Fall Semester:
- Find and reserve a Thesis advisor
- Send your advisor a short outline and topic statement of your thesis
- Send your advisor an expanded outline of your thesis
- Submit a substantial section to your
In the Spring Semester:
- Submit a Rough Draft to advisor and wait for comments
- Revise or rewrite your rough draft and submit a second draft to your advisor
- Revise the second draft and submit the final 100+ page work to the University to be bound and placed in the library.
I am presently somewhere between these last two steps, and the final draft is due in about a month and a half. The LL.M. experience truly culminates in the creation of a 100+ page law review article. Needless to say, the Spring Semester is when most of the thesis gets written, revised, etc. I and most of the LL.M. students I know have had to give up many weekends and work many late nights to meet the deadlines and finish the thesis on time. We are still struggling….
Hope this information is helpful and best of luck,
Droit
FAQ Correspondence:
By droit.est.philosophie in George Washington's LLM in International Law on Dec 12, 2006
Below, I have cut and pasted some email correspondence between myself and a prospective GW student, who stumbled upon this page. It contains some questions I think many would want answers to before coming to GW. Please note, the names and certain details have been edited for the purposes of this blog...
Prospective GW Student:
"Hey, just got admitted to the LLM program in International Law at GWU. It sounds from your posts that you find the program rewarding.What sort of things do they do to help students find jobs? Do most of the students have jobs when they graduate or does it take some time to find something? Is it tough to get financial aid? Any advise you can provide would be greatly appreciated."
Droit's response:
Congratulations! It's a very competitive program and you should feel pretty good about yourself right now. I think it’s great here. Although right now I'm feeling a little beat cause I just finished my first exam, drinking a nice Yuengling while writing you to cool down the brain cells.
As to jobs, they have a very active CDO, if you go to the gwu law website, there'll be a link on there. I scheduled an appointment before I even started classes. They offer a lot of good information, but if you're not motivated to find a job, then you're sol.I started with a RA position at the law school, the pay stinks but the hours are flexible and the work is interesting. I'm just starting to look myself for post-graduate positions. Have you passed a BAR yet? That's key. Where are you from? If you're looking for scholarships and you're American (like myself) it's almost impossible to get them. They're all for foreign students. If you are foreign then they have a lot of scholarships on the website.
And the financial aid: I suggest going through the financial aid's preferred lender list so you get it immediately. (A friend of mine didn't use a preferred lender and he just finally
got his check for August a few weeks ago). But they are loans and you have to pay them back postgrad.
I hear that most GW LLMs are employed within a few months of graduation, but I can't offer any data. Keep in touch and I'll let you know as my class graduates...
Let me know if there is any more info you need,
I'd be happy to talk to you about whatever.
Prospective GW Student's response:
Thanks for the feedback and congrats on being done with your exam. I know friends that have gotten LLM's in tax and patent law and they all say that it was worth it, but those areas tend to be a little more specialized than International...do you think an LLM in International carries the same weight? Are you going full time or part time? I am a US citizen and a member of the VA and DC bars, but I'm doing real estate law and don't find it all that rewarding....thus the idea to switch to international. Seems like most of the positions I've seen in firms in international are for project finance or international trade (anti-dumping, countervailing duty work), and of course they want experience. I'm hoping that they'll take the LLM in lieu of years of experience.
Droit's Response:
Sorry for the delayed response. We're still inexams for another few days.Marketability of the LLM in international?
Will they accept the LLM in lieu of experience?
Will the LLM in international make your life more fulfilling? -It depends on what you do with it. I can tell you it is a lot more interesting than real estate.
I'm doing full time. And, just so you know, they rarely waive the 100 page thesis you have to write. Where did you go to law school? How long have you been practicing? I came here straight from law school and just passed the BAR. Initially, I wanted to go on to a Doctorate and teach but when I found out there was no funding for the Doctorate, I decided I better find a more lucrative job for a while and try to teach later.
By the way, would you mind if I posted this correspondence on the Blog, I will change the names and everything? I think a lot of people are probably wondering these same things.
Prospective GW Student's response:
One or two more quick questions...are most of the students US JD's hoping to specialize in international, or foreign grads hoping to get jobs in the US market? Are there any professors I should avoid?
Droit's response:
No problem, glad to do it.
There are a lot of both. I don't know the exact percentage but I'd guess about 50%/50% foreign and domestic. The only problem with having so many foreigners in the class is that sometimes you can't understand what they're saying: sometimes the accent muffles the English. Everything else is cool, had many a beer with people from different countries and their perspective makes the education that much more interesting.
...No one I've had that I would say to avoid.
I hear you on the regional dilemma. GW has a good name and I hope it will carry wherever we go. Not quite Yale or Harvard, but people hear it and get all tingly inside (in a good way). Let me know if you think of anything else you would want to know. It helps me to think these things questions out too.
Procrastination time over, got to make a pot of coffee and get back to the exam studies.
...
The Eve of the Seventh Week
By droit.est.philosophie in George Washington's LLM in International Law on Oct 14, 2006
If productivity was a currency, almost seven weeks in, this LLM candidate would be affluent.
A vast array of international modules ranging the spectrum of courses with professors who, themselves, wrote the most widely used casebooks in the country leads to an enlightening educational experience. Without reservation, I encourage prospective LLM candidates to research this program, these professors, and apply themselves. To maintain anonymity, this candidate will not profess to the capabilities of any particular professor, but take a look at the faculty web page and see for yourself. Surely, you will be glad you did.
Even outside of the international law program, GW was given the SBA (Student Body Organization) of the year award for the 2005-6 school-year and has only this year initiated three LLM senatorial positions and a LLM council. These positions give LLMs a pivotal role in the development of the GW community both within and outside the classroom. It allows LLMs to interact on a regular basis with other LLMs and the rest of the student body (viz., JDs - the rising American Lawyers).
To keep this blog from sounding too much like a sales pitch I will turn the conversation to some intellectual and social matters.
Intellectually, I am looking for good books on the holistic jurisprudential foundations of international law. Additionally and more particularly, any books or articles on the intersection of sales law and jurisprudence would be of great aid. I would sincerely appreciate anyone knowledgeable who happens to stumble upon this blog to inform me of any good readings in these areas.
As to the social matters: I, personally, am in a committed relationship and my better-half was kind enough to follow me to the area. However, for those of you that are not as lucky as I in this aspect, there is a remarkable night life in DC. In fact, it said to have one of the greatest night-scenes in the USA (of course, this "fact" is merely word-of mouth-rumors, I suppose, you will have to discover whether it is true for yourself).
I wish you the best on the eve of the 7th week,
droit
A Late Addition
By droit.est.philosophie in George Washington's LLM in International Law on Sep 7, 2006
Primarily, this blog aspires to be geared towards those who, like myself, could find little literature on LLM programs, their instrumentality post-graduation, and the opportunities that will spawn from participating in the program. More specifically, to give readers an 'insider's look' at one of the best international law programs in the United States (pardon the bias, but the U.S. news and world report will support that assessment).
After less than two weeks of courses at G.W. the balance that pervaded my graduate and law programs preceding this LLM presented itself. The allocation of time required to simultaneously maintain the courses, the thesis, family life, and the everpresent law school social life continues at the next level of education.
At first glance, the quality of both students and professors is astounding. And the location, only blocks away from the White House in Washington D.C., both humbles the individual and magnifies the importance of what one is doing on a daily basis. The location puts law back into the political context from which it was born; a context that I believe is its natural and proper habitat.
It is only after two weeks that I have had a spare minute to write this blog-entry, so it is questionable how often I will post. But I will assure you that if I find any answers as to whether an LLM is worth doing or not, I will post those answers here. For now, I can assure you that you will not be dissapointed by the intelligence and class of the student body at George Washington nor with their student services. I know I am impressed.
Best,
