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For Students from India planning to do a LLM from UK

By prashbez in For Indian Students planning to do a LLM from UK on Apr 30, 2008

I've been posting on this site for quite some time now and I finally took Mr. India's suggestion and decided to combine whatever information I have gathered (after extensive research) about doing an LLM from UK into one blog. I hope this blog helps the Indian students in taking the right decisions on doing an LLM and also becoming aware of how things stand in general. The purpose of the blog is not to discourage Indian students but to make them aware of the facts so that they can take the right decision on going for the LLM or not and how to fund their studies.

I've obtained admission for the 2008-2009 LLM in a number of Universities in UK and will probably go for the LLM but my reasons for doing the LLM are not really from the perspective of a job in the UK.

FYI, I have 10 years of work ex in India and my experience has been very wide and general ranging from litigation to corporate/ transactional work in law firms to working with MNC's and running my own law firm. I am now concentrating on corporate/ transactional work.

1. CONDITIONAL ADMISSIONS (Requirement of English Language tests):

I got a conditional offer from a college in London and had to submit my TOEFL/ IELTS scores to get an unconditional offer. Other Universities have given me an unconditional offer.

I spoke to the London college a few days back and informed them that I had studied all throughout in English. After speaking with me, they informed me that if I submitted a Certificate from my University where I did my LL.B stating that I studied the LL.B in English, they would waive the TOEFL/ IELTS for me and give me unconditional admission. Maybe others who have studied all throughout in English and have to fulfill the English language condition can make a similar request to the colleges where they have received conditional admission.

2. JOB PROSPECTS IN UK AFTER THE LLM:

2.1 The UK law firms really don't care if you have a LLM or not. Their hiring decision is not made on the basis of the LLM but on the basis of the LL.B and your relevant work experience. By relevant work experience I mean a specialized work experience which is related to the law firm's areas of expertise. Unlike India where you need a more generalized experience and sometimes in a smaller law firm you're dealing with various areas of law, in UK your experience is more specialized. There's no point in having a general kind of work ex in India if you plan to work outside India. This is feedback that I have received from UK law firms and UK recruitment consultants. In fact not one response from the UK law firms and recruitment consultants has been positive about getting a job in UK after a LLM, for persons with a LL.B degree from India especially as the market is also down in the UK at present. The LLM may have more value in other countries like Singapore, Hong Kong etc. but even then you're not sure. Even after significant work experience in India, you would probably start at a Trainee level or at best as a newly qualified solicitor (if you clear the QLTT). Your previous experience in India would be considered to a certain extent but will not be given a very high preference. Another point which I got to know recently is that the more experience you have in India, the less the chances of getting a Trainee position as you would be then be over qualified for a Trainee position. Therefore for persons with more than 6-10 years experience in India, it becomes even more difficult to join a UK law firm in my view.

2.2 Just to give you an example of how tough it is to get a job, there was a friend of mine who did his LLM a few years ago from one of the top UK colleges. Before he went for his LLM he was a salaried partner in one of the big Indian law firms in Delhi. After the LLM he didn't get a job for almost one year despite his 6 years of specialized work ex and finally managed to get a job with a UK law firm after a lot of struggle and after sticking on in UK for a couple of years.

2.3 Consider this point, why would a UK law firm hire you after a LLM, when there are persons applying to them who have done a 3-year LL.B degree from UK and also have UK work experience in comparison to Indian work experience or no work experience? Though India is booming right now and foreign law firms are hiring Indian lawyers for their India Practices as well as other practices, but those lawyers are being hired more for their previous work experience than for their LLM. The foreign law firms are hiring Indian lawyers because they see the market in India opening up for the foreign law firms in a few years and it is to their advantage that they set up "India Practices". They definitely don't have an altruistic reason for hiring Indian lawyers but are doing it only for the reason that when the Indian market opens up for them, they can then send back those lawyers to work for their offices in India or advise their clients' on setting up in India. Further only a small percentage of the Indian lawyers who apply for jobs to foreign law firms get them. I personally know some persons from India, who have gotten jobs with foreign law firms without doing a LLM, after about 5-6 years of transactional work, so a LLM is really not that important for getting a job in a foreign law firm.

3. QUALIFYING AS A SOLICITOR OF ENGLAND AND WALES (Please check the SRA website for more up to date info):

My understanding of the SRA Regulations is that if you don't have 2 years work experience in India then in order to qualify as a Solicitor of England and Wales, you'll need to do the LPC/ GDL and a training contract. But if you do have 2 years experience in India then you need to provide the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA) with a letter from your employer certifying your 2 years experience and certain other documents. Once you get a Certificate of Eligibility from the SRA, you can then sit for the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Test (QLTT) in India itself or in UK and clear that to qualify as a Solicitor of England and Wales. For Indian lawyers with a LL.B degree from India, you need to clear the Professional Conduct and Accounts paper and the Principles of Common Law paper (you can get an exemption from this paper if you provide them a Certificate from your Law School stating that you did your LL.B in English). The decision to impose conditions in the Certificate of Eligibility is that of the SRA. The QLTT is not cheap, it'll cost you almost Rs. 80,000/- to Rs. 1,00,000/- and maybe more. But it will help to a certain extent, because after clearing it, you can apply to become a Solicitor of England and Wales. But please don't bank on getting a job in UK even if you have cleared the QLTT and have a LLM degree. Contrary to popular belief, clearing the QLTT and becoming a Solicitor of England and Wales does NOT guarantee you a job with a law firm in UK. The QLTT regulations will change from September 1, 2008. It will now be mandatory for foreign lawyers to obtain 1 year of training in English law. Those who apply for the Certificate of Eligibility after September 1, 2008 will now be governed by the new regulations for the QLTT.

You can check out the QLTT regulations here:

www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/qltt.page  

www.sra.org.uk/documents/solicitors/qltt/qltt-expe…

www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/qltt/transfer-regulation…  

www.sra.org.uk/documents/solicitors/qltt/qltt-regu…

http://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/qltt/revised-guidance.page

but please be sure to check the SRA website regularly as the rules may change.

4. MY PERSPECTIVE IF YOU HAVE TO COME BACK TO INDIA AFTER THE LLM:

4.1 From an Indian law firm perspective, the LLM really doesn't help you if you come back to India immediately after the LLM. This has been mentioned to me by the Managing Partner of one of the top 4 law firms in Delhi, India, a Senior Partner from another big law firm in Mumbai and a number of other senior lawyers. If you plan to come back to India or are forced to come back for a job after the LLM, then it's better that you get some work experience before you go for the LLM. After 3-5 years of work ex in India, the LLM may help a little bit but not much with Indian law firms. Your salary with the Indian law firms will certainly not jump drastically after the LLM. Yes, if you manage to get 4-5 years work ex after your LLM with a law firm in UK and then come back to India, that would certainly help you in the law firms in India. Starting salaries in the bigger law firms in India have increased drastically in the past few years. The reason for that is self preservation. :))) The Indian law firms have realized that they are losing good talent to the foreign law firms and have therefore had to increase their salaries to retain the good talent. Therefore working in India is now a good option too.

4.2 The LLM may have some value for a MNC and a Legal Process Outsourcing Company in India but there also a lot will depend on your previous work experience in India.

5. FINANCING YOUR LLM STUDIES

5.1 If you have a scholarship and only need to take a minimal loan, go by all means. The LLM will add value to you as a person, academically and give you an exposure that you would not get here in India. Do it for yourself and to get more in depth knowledge in subjects of your interest and in an international environment.

5.2 If you're going to take a huge loan and finance your LLM, then you should acquire significant and highly specialized work ex in India to be able to pay off the loan in case you have to come back to India. At a lesser work ex level, it will be very tough to pay off a huge loan especially since your salary in India after the LLM will not increase drastically. I have 10 years work ex in India, so I'm really not worried about getting a job and paying off my loans if I come back to India. My reasons for doing the LLM are definitely not from a UK job perspective although it would be welcome if it happens, for the experience.

5.3 If you're taking a loan and you think you can pay off the loan easily, then go by all means. But don't take a huge loan just from a foreign job perspective cause the risks involved are large. An important point is that a large loan puts a lot of pressure on you and gives you much less flexibility till you pay off the loan.

5.4 Another suggestion is to postpone your admission to the next year and earn some money to finance a major part of your studies/ living costs especially if you have age on your side. J

5.5 Banks in India have the highest rate of interest for an Education Loan unlike the UK and the US. The interest ranges between 12% per annum to about 13.5% per annum and for an amount of Rs. 7.5 lakhs and above most banks require a collateral of similar value and a third party guarantee. Even the housing loans are offered at a lower rate of interest than the education loans. Ha. I would personally prefer the Nationalized banks to the Foreign banks in India. But that's your decision. My calculation of taking a 20 lakhs loan from India banks repayable over 5-7 years is that by the time you repay it, you would be paying back approximately 31 lakhs instead of 20 lakhs. Think about this figure because the repayment starts one year after you finish your course or 6 months after you get a job. The interest clock keeps ticking while you're studying, unless you're able to service the interest while studying. The expected EMI on the above loan of 20 lakhs is about Rs. 30000/- per month. This is a huge figure unless you're earning 1 to 2 lakhs a month (which you're unlikely to earn as a fresh graduate/ after only 2-3 years of work experience or directly after your LL.B and the LLM) and even then it’s a great pressure on you.

5.6 If you/ your family can’t finance your studies, minimize the bank loan, even if you have to take one. Apply for all the scholarships available and take soft loans from parents, relatives, friends and well-wishers. This way, you don’t have the pressure of paying an EMI after your course or after you get a job.

6. REASONS FOR DOING THE LLM:

6.1 Do the LLM for the right reasons and not just from the perspective of getting a job in UK. I want to study further and become more specialized in the subjects of my interest and in areas of law where I already have experience in India. That’s the main reason I'm opting to do the LLM after 10 years of work ex in India.

6.2 For those of you planning to do the LLM right after your LLB, my suggestion is to work for some time and get some experience in India. The main reason for my suggestion is that after working for a while, you’ll be very sure about which areas of law really interest you. If you go for the LLM at that stage where you know what you want to specialize in, it will help you much more than if you go without work experience. You might make the wrong decisions about the choice of the LLM or the subjects you choose if you don’t have work experience. Of course if you come from a family background of lawyers, then you can go right after your LLB especially if you plan to work in your family practice. The other advantage of obtaining at least 2 years of work experience in India is that it enables you to try for the QLTT after getting the Certificate of Eligibility from the SRA.

Hope my views above help Indian students wanting to do a LLM from UK. Please conduct your own research on the LLM, job prospects etc. and let me know if there is any information above, which needs to be amended. I’d be happy to receive any comments and any additional information which persons on this forum may have to share.

All the best and Cheers

Prashant

Delhi, India

sane24@hotmail.com

Comments

Arun, Fri May 02, 2008 03:58 PM
Prashant, great blog! Thanks for collecting and presenting this valuable information.
Arun
prashbez, Fri May 02, 2008 08:17 PM
Thanks Arun. I know the amount of time I've had to spend to gather the information, so hope it saves a lot of the Indian students some time at least. :)

All the best.

Prashant
ArunS, Sat May 03, 2008 03:38 PM
All the best for you too! I hope your LLM will meet your expectations

I have also posted a link to your blog in the Indian lawyers community on lawyrs.net.
prashbez, Sat May 03, 2008 07:34 PM
Thanks Arun. I'm sure the LLM will meet my expectations because I've gotten feedback from a friend who studied with the same teachers I'll be studying with, that they were excellent.

Thanks for posting the link on lawyrs.net.

Where are you planning to go for your LLM?

Cheers
Prashant
Apurva, Mon May 19, 2008 01:09 PM
Thanks for this informative posting and analysis.

Apurva Mehta
Mumbai
prashbez, Thu May 22, 2008 05:00 PM
Thanks Apurva
siddharth khanna, Fri May 23, 2008 08:04 AM
Thanks a lot Prashant ... your blog has been of gr8 help ,,, i also wanted to know whether you happen to know anything about singapore job perspectives and indian lawyers
prashbez, Sat May 24, 2008 07:40 PM
Hi Siddharth

I'm not too sure about Singapore job prospects. As I've said above a lot will depend on your previous experience. The basic principles will remain the same for any jurisdiction, whether it's UK, US or Singapore. Besides the LLM by itself will not give you the right to practice in any country outside your own country. You would still need to clear the specific exams in that particular country to be eligible to practice.

I know people who have gone to Singapore without a LLM from UK or US, so I suggest you just apply to Singapore law firms and see what happens.
siddharth, Wed May 28, 2008 09:41 PM
Thanx a lot prashant ... i think i should do that first ,, atleast ill have an idea ,, wether i shld apply for llm or not thn ,,,
anshul_kalra, Sat May 31, 2008 11:19 AM

I read about your profile on your website and found it very interesting. I wanted to take some advice from you regarding my career.I would really appreciate, if you would take your time out to respond to this . I have completed my graduation from India (Jai hind college, mumbai) and I am planning to do LLb from the Uk. I have gotten into Kings college, London and have got few queries to clear from an Indian living in the UK. Being an international student, I do not have enough knowledge on the job prospects after this degree, so what would be your take on this? Secondly, I have thought that after completing my LLb from kings, I would take an LPc course to become a solicitor. Now do you think It would be feasible for me to spend so much at a strech, and expect an impressive return? Thirdly, After completing my studies, say after starting a professional life, If I have to return to my country then would I be getting jobs in the law firms? Also, I have enquired that the jurisdiction of India and the Uk is almost similar, so does it makes easier for the Indian students to work in both the countries?

Few of my friends are telling me that I should do LLb from India and take the masters degree from the UK, work there for few years and come back to India. I am in two minds because I have gotten into such a great college which supposedly offers a promising future and the quality of education is far better than any of the Indian institutes. Secondly, the cost of education in India is one-tenth of the cost of education in London, so sometimes I feel that India is a better option in terms of costs and returns.

I await your response and hope that your advise would help me to choose the best career
Megh, Sun Jun 01, 2008 05:37 PM
Hi Ashrul,

I just read your comment.

If you have gotten into one of the national law schools in India (NLS, NUJS, NALSAR etc) then take it up! It would be better to do an LLM in the UK. I study at one of the national law schools in India and definitely recommend studying in them. (I also had the option of doing my LLB abroad but decided not to and am happy about it)

11% of the batch that just passed out had job offers from London's magic circle law firms :-) So you can still work there even though you dint do an LLB in the UK. A lot of them opted to ditch the UK traineeship in favour of an LLM. Wile some of them opted for jobs in Indias top law firms.

People from national law schools are very professional and they do get the BEST jobs in India. According to economists, in another 5 to 8 years LLB students will earn more than IIM students in India. And that will be around the time you pass out from India.

Think about it, you can always consider doing an LLM in the UK so you will have the option to go there later.

As for job prospects in India, you can become partner if you are from one of the national law schools in 7 to 8 years! and thats an incredibly short time! Whereas if you worked in the UK .. i doubt that would be the case.

In a few years foreign law firms will be allowed to enter India .. there will be more jobs and better jobs!

Good luck!
prashbez, Sun Jun 01, 2008 09:11 PM
Hi Anshul

FYI I live in Delhi, India and not in the UK. My blog is specifically meant for Indian students wanting to do a LLM from UK and not a LLB. But the basic principles of financing your studies remain the same whether for a LLM or a LL.B.

I've replied to your queries in your email. Check my answers and let me know if you need any more info.

All the best.

Cheers
Prashant
ArunS, Tue Jun 03, 2008 02:14 PM
Hi Prashant: I posted a message in the group for Indian lawyers on lawyrs.net!
studentlaw2000, Thu Jun 05, 2008 08:28 AM
dear prashant
hi , you have done a great job by helping indian students planning to do an llm in uk ,what i want to know is do you have any idea about the external programme of uol if yes then i have various questions and we can communicate on that further
thanks and regards
studentlaw2000
prashbez, Thu Jun 05, 2008 09:46 AM
Hi Student Law2000

Thanks. I don't have too much idea of the External programme of UOL. I did explore it a few months back and it seemed good, but I decided to go for a full time course instead of doing a distance learning course. The external course does offer you a wide range of subjects.

Send me your questions in any case. Maybe I can give you some suggestions.

Cheers
Prashant
studentlaw2000, Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:01 AM
hi prashant
thanks for responding so fast , i am from mumbai and i shall correspond with you tonight after i have systematically compiled my queries . one more question is sane24@hotmail.com your mail id and if yes is it ok to communicate with you on that id or are you more comfortable communicating on this blog
thanks and regards
studentlaw2000
prashbez, Fri Jun 06, 2008 09:21 PM
Hi Student Law

Write to me at sane24@hotmail.com. I'm comfortable communicating anywhere. lol.

Put your queries on the blog too since you might get some other viewpoints in addition to my inputs. Or better still, make a new post on the site.

Cheers
Prashant
tanay0903, Sun Jun 29, 2008 08:33 AM
hey prashant,

thanks a lot for the info above, its really enlightening...a few queries that i hope you can shed spome light on:

1. when you say 'work experience' does it mean experience as a qualified lawyer after securing the LLB degree? In Bombay, we work generally work at a law firm through out the year during the entire course of our studies. Is that counted as work experience as well??

2. What is your opinion about the Solicitors exams in Bombay and the effect it has on an LLM? I mean if i have a Solicitors tag, will it enhance my LLM prospects? Further, will my period of 'Articleship' (i.e three year traineeship required to be eligible for Solicitors) be considered as 'work experience' for LLM purposes? Will it also count for the QLTT?

3. What do u mean by a specialized experiece? As in most of the bigger law firms in Mumbai do all kinds of work, so isnt it hard to say that you have specialized in one particular avenue therein?

It would be great if you could address my queries above

Thanks & Regards
prashbez, Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:33 AM
Hi Tanya

I'm answering your queries below to the best of my abilities and knowledge:

1. Work Experience is any kind of work experience whether after or during your LL.B. If you've been working throughout the year at a law firm that would be considered work experience. When you apply for the LLM, the different kind of work you have done should be taken into consideration.

2. I think that a Solicitors tag from India and a LL.B degree from one of the good institutes in India would probably be at par now as far as the LLM is concerned. In my view any work experience you get while doing your "Articleship" would be beneficial for the LLM application. Moots, transactional work, litigation, papers, articles etc. are all an added benefit on your CV when applying for the LLM. However it may not be considered acceptable for the QLTT as they probably require 2 years of post qualification work experience. I'm not so sure about that aspect, but you can check with the SRA whether they would consider internships/ work experience/ Articleships during your LL.B as acceptable for granting you the Certificate of Eligibility to sit for the QLTT. In all probability, the SRA wants 2 years of work experience after you complete your LL.B or Solicitors in India.

3. Specialized experience means a very specific experience in one particular area of law. For instance if you've been doing only Corporate Law work for many years, that would be specialized experience. If you're a Capital Market specialist, that would be specialized experience. Similarly M&A, Project Finance etc. The basic point is that you have to be a specialist in one particular area of law.

But like me if you've done 4 years of litigation, 4 years of corporate/ transactional work and 2 years in MNC's, then it would become a generalized experience. Unfortunately the systems in India and abroad are totally different from the perspective of work experience. In India one necessarily has to handle all kinds of work especially if you're working for a smaller law firm/ running your own law firm. If you are good at your work, your bosses will assign you the important work irrespective of whether it is corporate or litigation related. In smaller law firms, once the bosses have confidence in your abilities, then they'll try and assign you different kinds of work.

In UK and other countries abroad, you generally tend to stick on in one area of law for many years. I could be wrong on this aspect as persons working in smaller firms in UK may also be handling all kinds of work. But by and large what i've heard from friends of mine working for big law firms abroad is that they require specialists rather than generalists.

Let me know if you need any more help. Send me an email if you need detailed answers.

Cheers and All the best
Prashant
prashbez, Mon Jun 30, 2008 08:06 PM
Hi Tanya

You can check out the links below for the QLTT. They are apparently revising the guidelines for the QLTT.

www.sra.org.uk/securedownload/file/851

www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/qltt.page

www.sra.org.uk/securedownload/file/852

Cheers
Prashant
naumaan, Fri Jul 11, 2008 09:24 AM
PLEASE GUIDE ME FOR THE PREPARARTION OF QLTT. GUIDENCE THAT WOULD BE IN CHEAPER SENSE AS FAR AS COST IS CONCERNED. THANKYOU
prashbez, Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:34 AM
Hi Naumaan

You need to go through the links given above. The cost for the Certificate of Eligibility and the QLTT exam is a fixed cost as set by the SRA and by the exam providers.

I don't think there's a cheaper alternative to the QLTT except to the extent that you can purchase the course material second hand.
Arvind, Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:55 AM
hey prashant thanks a lot fo this valuable info.
anways i hav got sum queries for u.i am doin 5yrs law course n currently in my 4th year.i want to get into corporate law but not in india.
itll b gr8 if u tell me the various job prospects of corporate law outside india (Uk,US.etc) with gud pay scale???do i need to do sum special course for it???
prashbez, Thu Aug 14, 2008 07:49 PM
Hi Arvind

If you have very good marks and are from one of the top law institutes in India, then you may get recruited by one of the law firms abroad if you apply to them. But things are very tough and the only reason the foreign law firms would hire you in my view is if they can train you up and use you for Indian law related stuff in the future or you have some prior Indian law experience.

In any case with the present market situation it's gonna be an uphill task for you to get a job in my opinion. It's not impossible but very tough. You can try and apply for a Training Contract with one of the UK law firms but those only start after 2 years from the date that you get them.

You can take the QLTT to become a solicitor of England and Wales, but for that you need 2 years of Indian law experience if you apply before September 1, 2008. However you are probably ineligible to take the exam right now since you don't have 2 years work experience. But in any case after September 1, 2008 they are changing the rules for the QLTT and you'll have to show at least 1 year of English law experience. How are you going to get that? The QLTT just became tougher for the Indian lawyers. In any case I think the QLTT is just another money making scheme and won't really help in getting a job with a foreign law firm in UK without other factors being considered.

I personally think right now India is the place to work in Corporate law. Why exactly do you want to do Corporate law outside India?
IntLaw, Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:31 AM
Hi Prashant,

Great blog. Very informative, educative, interesting.

A friend of mine wants to do UK LLM but is not able to find info on what percentage of people get placed after LLM, a college by college list. Did you come across any such stats? Thanks.

Jay
prashbez, Sun Aug 24, 2008 08:12 PM
Hi Jay

I've been trying to find this kind of info for a long time but have not come across it as yet. But I'll keep trying. This kind of info would be very relevant for international students.

I doubt whether too many Indian students get placed after their LLM. It all depends on the market and what benefit the foreign law firms can derive by recruiting Indian students.

Frankly those Indian students who want to go for the LLM thinking that it will easily get them a job with a foreign law firm are mistaken and are taking the wrong decision in my opinion.
Satish, Tue Aug 26, 2008 06:55 PM
Hi, Im a Indian Attorney with around 3 yrs experience in Lawfirm and LPO, now Im in USA to do my LLM. If I complete my LLM in USA, will it be useful when I go back to India?
prashbez, Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:57 PM
Hi Satish

If you already have experience in India, it would help but not to such a great extent. A lot depends on the subjects you study in your LLM. If they are generally applicable in India and across the world then it should help.

But it should open up some doors which may have been closed for you earlier.
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meeta, Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:19 AM
Hey great blog guys. I'm in a slightly different situation. I'm from UK and reading law at Nottingham law school. I've finished my first two years and I've taken this year out for a year long placement. I'll go back next Sept to do my final year. I'm planning on moving to India permanently once I've graduated but LLB from university of Nottingham isn't one of the recognised institutions by the Bar Council of India so I will be required to apply directly to the Bar council of India but I was wondering if anyone had any idea of what factors might be taken into consideration?

Another confusion is whether I should finish my LLB, do Legal Practice Course - preferably at one of the recognised universities, get a training contract and a couple of years' experience and Then think about practicing in India? Would tht help or make the situation even worse?? :S

Thanks!
prashbez, Sun Oct 05, 2008 02:37 AM
My suggestion is finish your LL.B, do your LPC, do the training contract and practice for some time in UK before moving to India. It'll help you much more in India. Work experience is always better.
Megha, Sun Oct 19, 2008 06:16 AM
Hi Friends...!!

Excellent info...perhaps the best info.

Thanks a lot for the valued suggestion.

It was of gr8 help in taking future step in the legal career. I was interested in pursuing LLM from UK after my LLB from Calcutta University,India
meeta, Wed Oct 29, 2008 09:23 AM
Thank you for getting back Prashant :D
Deven, Tue Nov 04, 2008 06:42 PM
Thanks for the info Prashant. It is very useful for people planning their LLM in UK :) Good research.
karina, Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:41 AM
hi...im a student doin my llb from law fac delhi..i wish to study in uk for my llm...bt after readin ur suggestions im really confused....!!!!!! do u think it is better in all ways to persue llm in india rather then in uk??????
prashbez, Sun Nov 23, 2008 06:25 PM
Hi Karina

To be honest, there is absolutely no point in doing a LL.M from India. It's a 2 year LL.M and you would be much better off working for 2 years than doing the LL.M in India. It won't add value to you in terms of a job though it might benefit you in terms of knowledge. Get practical experience instead if you plan to do the LL.M in India.

With the present market scenario in UK, it's very tough to get a job even after the LL.M from UK. Plus it's expensive and cost of living is high especially in London. The LL.M at King's is good for sure but I doubt it will help me in getting a job here.
Himanshu, Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:59 AM
Thanx for the info provided by blog and replies to the queries. You should rather think about opening a consultancy becuase honestly speaking consultancies over here are not that convincing.

I am interested in doing an LLM from UK in Environmental Law. Since, I've got only 56% in my LLB, chances are remote that I get a scholarship. So, I just wanted to kno that how much it costs(including tution fee, living expenses, food et al) to do an LLM in Environmental Law from any decent college at UK which provides the same course, if one is doing part-time job round the year?
sv, Wed Jan 07, 2009 09:22 AM
Great post - puts a lot of things into perspective! I'm in my final semester of a three-year LLB degree, and plan to apply in the coming fall for the 2010-2011 session. If possible, may I mail you with some queries?

Thanks!
prashbez, Wed Jan 07, 2009 09:34 PM
Hi SV

You can mail me your queries, but please bear with me if I take time to reply to your queries as I'm very busy with studies right now.

Cheers
Prashant
prashbez, Wed Jan 07, 2009 09:41 PM
Hi Himanshu

I guess tuition fee depends on which college you study at. But it will range from between 9500 pounds to 13500 pounds. Living expenses will also vary depending on which city of UK you study in. London is definitely more expensive than other cities like Manchester etc.

My tuition fee was 12500 pounds and living expenses come to about 800 pounds a month in London including rent (which is roughly 450 pounds a month) at the college residence and travel expenses. The estimated expenses including rent is if you don't normally cook, and you smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol. If you don't smoke, drink and if you cook food for yourself, then you can manage on much less. :)))) It also depends on how much you like to party because the clubs and pubs can work out expensive over a prolonged period of partying.

If you want a rough breakdown here it is:

Food - approximately 20 pounds per week or more if you want a rally healthy lifestyle. Budget about 150 pounds a month for really decent food and if you eat out a lot. Budget about 100 pounds a month if you're not too choosy about your food and can survive on bread cheese etc. Simplest way to save money is to cook yourself.

Travel within London: With a student Oyster card in London, 35 pounds a month for a bus pass and 65 pounds a month for a Tube and bus pass.

Rent: Between 400 to 600 pounds a month depending on where you live. You can manage on less if you live far away and not in the center of London and are willing to share your room. My advice is stay in a college residence and not privately because the basics are taken care of and you'll make many more friends in the college hostel than in a private residence.

Books: These are expensive and depend entirely on how good the college library is and how many books you need to actually purchase. But budget about 300-800 pounds for books during each semester.

The rest of the expenses depend on your lifestyle. For example travelling to other countries outside UK and outside London, will be separate costs.

Part Time Job: Doing a part time job is a good idea if you're strapped for money and want work experience to a certain extent. It's always something you can put on your CV and every job teaches you something. That said, unless it is directly related to your course and you really need the money, I would advise you to concentrate on your studies and to do a part time job for only 10-15 hours a week. If you do 20 hours a week, which is what you are officially allowed to do, then you will not have any time for yourself or to have a good time as a student. Again this depends on what kind of lifestyle you lead normally.

The course content is normally quite difficult and you need to prepare for your lectures/ seminars properly if you want to do justice to the course.

Let me know if you want more help.

Cheers
Prashant
ju, Wed Feb 04, 2009 05:07 PM
hi prashant , i dropped one mail on ur email adress given below ur blog. Please do check and reply to my querry..... thanks a lot in advance....
Vinita, Sun Feb 08, 2009 06:34 PM
Hi Prashant,
Great blog. Do you have any idea about the EMLE Program (European Master in Law & Economics) which allows one to study at 3 different universities (including Hamburg, Rotterdam and bologna i think).
Why did u choose an llm in UK over an LLm in USA. Can you share some light on LLMs in USA?

Thanks
prashbez, Thu Feb 19, 2009 02:12 AM
Hi Vinita

Haven't checked this website for some time. Been too busy.

I have no idea about the EMLE program.

UK is a common law system and so is India, therefore I chose UK over US. Besides most of the US Univs have approximately a 150 dollar application fee, which I did not want to pay, without any guarantee of admission. LOL.

Haven't really explored the US LL.Ms in detail but the basic principles mentioned in my blog for doing the LL.M remain the same whether its UK or US. You'll find lots of info on this site regarding the US LL.Ms.
debjanisarkar, Wed Mar 04, 2009 07:42 AM
Hi Prashant,

Your blog is full of information. Thanks for your blog.

I am an Engineer in Chemical Technology. I have ~ 8 years experience in industry. Last year I got a scholarship from Department of Science and Technology in Women Scientist Scholarship Scheme for training in Intellectual Property Rights. The duration of the course is one year (one month induction training and rest 11 months on-the-job training in a reputed law firm in Delhi). My training will be completed on the month of April.

After that I am planning to do LLM (IP) from an UK university. Can you please give me any information about the universities in UK which are offering LLM to the non-law students. I also want to know about the job opportunities for me in UK after doing the LLM.

Thank you.
deepak, Thu Mar 05, 2009 05:57 PM
hi prasant,
its a great blog which is full of real information about the pros and cons of LLM (Abroad). unfortunately, even i too pursuing LLM in international trade law, mainly focusing on maritime, aribtration and finance law. infact i have got 3 yrs of work experience in India. but even though i am not able to get a single internship. from all the corners i have got negative answers, still have not lost my patience and continuing to apply.
can u advise me at this point of junction about my further steps....

thanks,
kind regards,
deepak
Legal_India, Sun Mar 08, 2009 06:48 PM
Hello prashbez,

I hope you are enjoying your studies . Before I bombard you with questions there are certains things which i would like to tell you.

I am studying for a B.L.S., L.L.B degree (Dual Degree in 5 years). I am in the last year. I have scored 57% in B.L.S. and present average in LLB degree is 52%.
I am also studying LLM in Cyber Law (Distance Learning programme)(Part-time) from one of the top 10 Universities in UK(Name not disclosed). My average grade uptill now is B(60%+).
I have completed total three diploma courses (in India) in IPR and Cyber Law.
I have a 5 years work experience as a Legal Trainee.

These are my qualifications. I wish to practice as a Solicitor in London. I have applied for LLM Commercial and Corporate Law in most Universities. Following are some queries which have:

(1) What do you think about my application to QUML, KCL and UCL. Is there any other Universities which you would suggest me to apply for ?
(2) Is it preferrable to get admitted in a University situated in London or should i consider the ranking of other Universities also. (e.g. Aberdeen and Nottingham also have been given High Ranking)
(3) How good is it to have a second LLM in UK Law firms
Torino, Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:01 PM
Do you think prashbez is now working as an education advisor, just because he posted a blog? Ok that would be an alternative career path... :-)

Seriously, it's really nice of him to answer so many questions, but I don't think everybody should post his CV and ask him what to do with their lives.
prashbez, Sat Mar 14, 2009 02:16 AM
LOL@Torino. In the present market, an alternative career sounds like a good option Torino. :)))

My advice to everyone who's looking to do the LL.M for a job is that in the present market don't do the LL.M. Don't waste your money right now. Better to work for some time and gain practical experience. Of course if you have a scholarship and no loans then take it up. It does give you a different perspective and improves your overall understanding. It's hard work though, so be prepared to slog.

I also won't be able to advise people on which universities to opt for, what courses the universities offer, what the selection criteria is and other related stuff. All that information is available online and if you spend some time looking for it, it's all there.
xenataurus , Mon May 11, 2009 06:51 AM
hi prashant
I found your blog enlightening and have a query relating to that. I have completed my LLB degree this year from a law school in India and have got an offer for LLM in International Commercial Law from King's College London and University College of London. After completing the LLM Degree course, I plan to come back to India. My query is whether this course will enhance my career prospects after coming back next year as compared to the prospect I have at present. I do not have any work experience and am waiting for the result of my final year of LLB. degree.
Kindly advise.
Xena
Himanshu Talwar, Thu May 28, 2009 11:59 AM
Thanks for all the info, however i am working in an international organisation in new delhi. I have more than 2 yeras of work experience and i am planning to go for LLM from UK.

My interest is to study international law although i have already donemy MBA, Mphil and LLb which iam about to finsh the next year.

I want to be apart of any international organisation after finishing my LLM what are the prospects i dont have any problem in relocating in any part of the world but if i will be able to join ILO, UN or some other international organization like this.

Kindly suggest what to do?

Awaiting your response and if possible kindly send it on my e mail talwar4983@gmail.com

Himanshu
prashbez, Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:54 PM
Hi Xena

Haven't been accessing this site for some time. was too busy with exams. The LL.M is no guarantee of a job back in India in my view, especially with the present financial crisis in the international market. It may open up a few doors and you might have a chance to be considered for a job, but don't bank on it. The market, as far as I know, is not that great right now for lawyers in India. I'm not sure where you've done your LL.B from but a lot depends on where you get your first break. My suggestion is do the LL.M after you get some amount of work experience.

That said, King's is very good for International Commercial/ Financial Law. If you're interested in International Finance (Project Finance, Derivatives, Securitisations (though this market is kind of dead right now), International Bonds and Syndicated loans, Loan sales), Professor Ravi Tennekoon is brilliant and one of the best teachers I have studied with.

Cheers
Prashant
prashbez, Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:57 PM
Hi Himanshu

Sorry I can't advise you on the prospects of getting into ILO, UN etc, but believe me these are highly competitive positions and therefore there is intense competition for them. I suggest you talk to someone who works in those organizations or has experience in that filed.

If you're already working for an international organisation, stick around there in my view. Markets are pretty bad right now almost everywhere. A good job in hand is worth more than the potential of getting a good job after the LL.M.

Cheers
Himanshu Talwar, Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:39 AM
Hi Prashant ,

Thanks for the response. Well i would like comment that for lawyers your suggestions are very informative and useful.

God bless you for guiding the young students of India.

And i am also running an NGO in delhi so if you have any thing to share let me know i will send you the link of website and if interested you may join us for atleast a meeting.

Regards,

Himanshu Talwar
Pradip, Mon Jul 06, 2009 08:18 PM
Dear Prashant, I did LLB from DU in 2004. Since then, I have been independently practising in District, High and Supreme Court in Delhi and handling arbitration cases also. I have no experience in law firms. I want to specialize in International Commercial Arbitration by doing LLM from UK or US. I will have to take loans from Banks. Would you please guide me whether it would help me in my independent practice to do LLM or not? Or should I choose to do the diploma in ADR from ILI, Delhi or NALSAR Proximate education instead of a LLM from UK/US? Or you would suggest some other course for me in India?
prashbez, Thu Jul 16, 2009 02:52 AM
Dear Pradip

My advice is don't do the LL.M if you're going to take a bank loan considering the present market scenario. It's better to build up your practice and keep working without the hassle of a loan over your head.

Cheers
Prashant
Pradip, Sun Jul 19, 2009 04:25 PM
Thank you Prashant for your advice. Should I choose a diploma in ADR from ILI, Delhi or NALSAR Proximate education instead of a LLM from UK/US? Or you would suggest some other course for me in India?
prashbez, Tue Jul 21, 2009 02:09 AM
Hi Pradip

I think the diploma sounds like a good idea right now. There is of course no substitute for practical experience and that's what will help you the most in the future. The more you practice in your chosen field, the better you'll become, provided you keep yourself updated. I know this sounds like a lecture, but it isn't and it's reality. :)))

That said, the LL.M would help in the sense of giving you more exposure in an international environment with good teachers, but the question is it really worth spending that much money? There are so many people practising arbitration without a LL.M degree, so it's probably better to learn on the job. More so as you want to continue to do independent practice.
Advocate_Pallavi, Tue Jul 21, 2009 09:51 AM
Hi Prashant,

Firstly i want to thank 4d excellent info, u brought 4us. thanks a tonn

I wanted to hve ur opinion on my LLM QUERY

I am LLB grad 4m campus law center, DU and am planning 4my LLM in commercial law from U.K. the prob am facing is I dnt want to go to realy hi-fi univ, since i fear to get lost totaly wid soooo many brainies studying together.
I have been an average student and i want a place where I dnt feel lost, sum where i can maintain my identity and am able to cum back wid gud self confidence

(I hope u understand what i mean....)

The second thing is studying 4m queen marry nottingham aberdeen durham and cardiff.

here am realy confused where to go. do u realy think it makes a huge diff if i chose cardiff (which as per times and other ranking is sumwhere 15th or sumthin and almost 2nd in legal research)
actualy what i heard bout cardiff is what impressed me...tey say its a gud place wid gr8 aminities, well equipped libraries n other facilities, gud accomdation, student teacher ratio is gud, helpful staff, and its cheaper than london atleast.

Also i plan to go for BVC after my LLM, since BVC at Cardiff is also gud, so i thought bout going to cardiff, but stil the ranking bothers me, n i dnt want to cum back al messed up n go jobless if the deg isnt wel recognised back in Indian law firms.

Plz help!!!

Pallavi Goel
Himanshu K, Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:51 PM
Hi Prashant,
Excellent info. Totally agree with your anaylsis of the post-LLM scenario. LLM in UK cannot be used as a tool for securing entry in law firms there unless you are backed with "specialised" experience in India or elswhere.

Was hoping to exchange few mails with you.

Like you, my experience (over 11 years) in legal practise is a blend of Law firms (civil/criminal/FDI consultancy) and Corporates (negotiations and transactions). I have worked with prestigious law firms in India (thakker and Thakker, Mulla & Mulla) and for over 6 years been associated with top 10 IT companies in thr legal dept (which includes heading one of them). Although to be honest, my grades in LLB (india) where pretty ridiculous. So its shear hard work that has helped me achieve couple of my targets so far:)

I have this urge of, being absolutely honest, taking a years sabbatical from work and use my time to upgrade my skills. More importantly, also expose myself to other cultures and global students to gain first hand exposure of there approach to details in law. I surely do not aim to work in EU or for that matter UK although couple of law firms i have dealt during my work in IT companies have shown interest in taking me up to provide me training. But i would like to totally discount such invitations cuase they may be purely courteous in nature:).

With the above background, i was keen in exploring colleges in EU. I notice that you chose UK for LLM studies. Was wondering if you ever considered studying in Sweden (Stockholm) or Belgium. Sweden i hear offers LLM in IPR with no tution fees but of course stay is expensive whilst you also run the risk of getting no part time jobs due to langauge barrier.

Would you have time to share your thoughts on above. Looking forward to hear from you.

Cheers
Himanshu K
prashbez, Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:04 PM
@Pallavi: My advice is go for the better colleges as it would have more value back home. You'll find brainies at every college you go to, so you can't base your decision on whether you'll be studying with high performers or not. Do your best in the top ranked colleges if you get admission.

I'm not sure of the colleges you've mentioned but don't go by the rankings as those are for the LL.B courses and not for the LL.M.

@Himanshu: I think you're better off where you are right now. :) You seem to have a good job and my advice is stick to that. One year's sabbatical is fine if you really want it, but then go to some top ranked college (not to say Sweden and Belgium don't have good colleges, I wouldn't know about Sweden or Belgium and I never considered studying there) which is recognized back home as a good one. If you can get training in law firms, that's a better way of learning in my opinion. Write to me and we can discuss things in further detail.
narender, Thu Oct 08, 2009 07:00 PM
hi prashant
thanks for such a detailed information about LLM
however if i had read it before coming to london while was trying to get admission in LLM international commercial law from LMU london , i sure would have backed off, anyways , situation is not that grim , as i have an experience of about 4 years , in delhi with law firms , and a corporate house as legal officer,
as currently im pursuing LLM [sept 2009 intake] here in london , what do you feel that will that help me out while returning home ANYHOW? or is just a futile excersise , watse of money , irrespective of the fact that education never goes vain,
and i also want to ask if a uk LLM is recocgnised by the UGC net in india i mean can i get teaching job on return if ... the secne remain same professionaly .
please reply ..
prashbez, Wed Oct 21, 2009 08:18 AM
Hi Narender

I can't comment on the UGC net since I don't have much idea about that. The LL.M will probably benefit you to a certain extent but you need to check that.

Since you have previous experience in India, it should be okay for you. Besides the LL.M does benefit in many ways since it increases your knowledge and broadens your horizons. It's not a futile exercise or a waste of money depending on your reasons for doing the LL.M. My view is if you've gone to do the LL.M for a possible job in UK, then it is a waste of time, money and effort. But if you've gone for your own personal reasons then it is not a waste.

Things are improving back home but the LL.M does not really help in getting a job here. It might open a few doors, but the rest depends on you and your previous work experience.
Chitwan, Sun Nov 01, 2009 05:22 PM
That was a valuable piece of information sir. My sole motive to do LL.M. from UK is to come back to India (after gaining a year or so of work experience in UK )and join some top tier law firm. I am presently a final year law student of national law university, gujarat.
Considering the grim placements we've been facing, I decided to invest a year in studies, become post graduate and then revert back to the job market, as things would be much brighter.
However after your post, I am in a dilemma now as reasons to do LL.M. are my own as well as market driven.
If you could throw some more light on employability of Indian students in India who got their LL.Ms from UK.

Regards
Chitwan Prabhakar
prashbez, Thu Nov 12, 2009 07:27 AM
Hi Chitwan

Hi Chitwan

Sad to say, the LL.M is not going to be very useful in India from a job perspective. It might open a few doors for you (which were closed earlier) but is not going to be that useful. In the present Indian market, it's your previous work experience and where you've worked before that matters and not the LL.M.

If you're going immediately after your LL.B for the LL.M, my view is that it does not benefit you that much if you return to India. It's better to work for 3-4 years in a good law firm in India and then go for the LL.M. You'll gain much more from the LL.M. Your salary will also not increase in the Indian law firms because of the LL.M. You will be starting at the same level as a fresh LL.B graduate if you are a fresher. If you have experience, the LL.M will not help you in getting a higher salary.

In my view most law firms in India do not consider the LL.M as a major consideration in their hiring decision in the present market in India. Maybe 10 years earlier it did make a difference but not now. The same holds true for law firms abroad too.

For me the LL.M was useful from a personal and knowledge perspective because I already had considerable work experience in India. I gained a lot from the LL.M but only because I had worked in India earlier and could slot in the LL.M subjects into my previous work experience.

Cheers
Prash
ekta, Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:30 AM
hi prashant
thanks for such a detailed information about LLM. I am LLB grad 4m ILS Law college Pune. Its been a year m wrking with organisation which works non Terrorism,Police Reform,Prison Reform and other Human Rights Issues and am planning 4 my LLM in International Criminal Justice from U.K....vil it help me further...
prashbez, Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:30 PM
Hi Ekta

It depends on why you are doing the LL.M and what you really want to do after your LL.M. You would probably want to join an international NGO or some similar organization after your LL.M. But it's not that easy to get into those organizations.

You need to decide what exactly you want to do with the LL.M and how the subjects are related to your future goals.

Though I'm not an expert on International Criminal Justice, if you're taking a loan and doing the course, my advice is don't. This is because human rights law and similar areas of law would not really help you to pay back your loan. These are not mainstream areas and getting a reasonably well paying job in these areas is difficult. Yes, mainstream criminal law does pay well but it takes years to reach that level.

From a knowledge perspective I personally think the LL.M helps a lot if you work hard. It gives you a much wider perspective and you can go into detail in the subjects you study.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you need more info.

Cheers and all the best.
Prash

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