http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296 en KCL vs UCL vs LSE - LLM GUIDE Discussion Board Sat, 28 Jan 2006 00:30:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#10296 Hi guys, I got an offer from LSE already, still waiting for KCL and UCL to reply. I want to do Public International Law, but not too much of traditional --the use of force and stuff. I'll be focusing on international economic law, WTO law or perhaps Foreign Relations-related subjects. Which of these three do you think is the best??? Some say LSE, some say UCL, and my KCL fellow say KCL (which I don't quite agree, I know we're weak at this particular subject but excellent at others though).. Although King's environment is so good and I'm addicted to it! P.S. I also applied to SOAS, QMW, Nottingham (got an offer already) and Birmingham.. Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:23:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#10944 Personally, I would say LSE is ranked the highest amongst these three universities, followed by UCL and KCL. I have also applied to these universities and have been accepted at LSE, but still waiting to hear from UCL and KIng's. Just a question: how does the specialization system work at the LSE...... Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:39:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#10945 I'm Canadian... so take my opinion with a grain of salt... :) I think in North America, London School of Economics is widely known and recognized, usually mentioned in the same breath just behind Oxford and Cambridge. Part of the reason is because so many important public / political figures studied at LSE, such as the Kennedy brothers (U.S.) and perhaps Canada's most popular prime minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau. Sun, 12 Feb 2006 02:41:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#10956 To Vowpailin: you have been accepted to LSE but how long did it take before they took their decision? Sun, 12 Feb 2006 15:05:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#10970 Nicolas: I have been accepted at LSE. My application arrived in December and the offer of acceptance was dated the second week of January. Sun, 12 Feb 2006 22:44:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#10993 Yes, I've been accepted to LSE. I applied early Dec and it took around 6 weeks for the decision to come out online. I still haven't heard from UCL or KCL. Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:27:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#11005 Yeah same here sent applications off in december got accepted by LSE beginning of january and just got an offer from UCL this morning. Still waiting for KCL. There seems to be quite a difference in the fees : LSE is much more expensive than UCL ..... is it justified ? Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:15:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#11009 Max: I am an overseas student. It's going to be expensive anyway :-( I'm now leaning towards LSE...but I like UCL and KCL's subjects... Mon, 20 Feb 2006 18:14:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#11262 I'm wondering if the fee difference between LSE and UCL for EU citizens is justified? Is LSE really worth the extra 3,500 £? And another question: which university should one choose if one has the choice between KCL and UCL? (if the answer to the first question is that LSE isn't worth the extra fee) Mon, 20 Feb 2006 22:42:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#11271 As regards the difference of cost between UCL and LSE, it made a difference to me as... I did not apply to LSE for this reason. However, LSE is very prestigious in Europe, true...and important to consider for post LLM projects. It is, definitely, what you pay. Does it worth it for all that ? I sincerly do not know, KCL and UCL being known too. Now, KCL or UCL ? This is the BIG question. I had to decide and finally choose UCL. Objectively, KCL is more known than UCL in Continental Europe, and UCL is considered to be slightly ahead KCL in the UK and English speaking countries it seems. It depends also on your specialisation, and as far I know : Competition law = KCL Public law = UCL Business Law = UCL Financial and Banking Law = Both Common Law (if you want) = Both I don't know as regards other areas. It sems that QMU is better in IP and taxation. Wed, 22 Feb 2006 00:28:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#11322 Thank you for the reply. I have a slight preference for UCL at the moment, but I still have some doubts... Sat, 25 Feb 2006 09:21:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#11550 I am choosing UCL from the three. I will be able to say whether I made the right choice starting this fall, but after going through course lists and fee amounts (which is rather important) I chose UCL. Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:51:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#11557 when deciding in favor of UCL did you also compare UCL's and KCL's academic staff? imo, it should be one of the most important factors Mon, 27 Feb 2006 19:23:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#11629 I have applied to LSE, UCL and Cambridge in the UK. Having gotten into both LSE and UCL, I would be inclined to choose LSE over UCL. Being from Canada, I think that LSE is clearly regarded as having the better reputation of the two. I have spoken to many professors and lawyers, all of whom have suggested a preference for LSE. It appears that both of them have great programs, and that the quality of education would be equally good at either, so I am basing this decision on what appears to be a consensus amoung those I have spoken to in Canada in terms of the international reputation of the two institutions. The more difficult question for me rightnow is whether I should attend school in the UK or the US (with the intentions of coming back to Canada)! Good luck with your decisions! Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:09:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#11637 Hey Rah23, I am also from Canada and will be attending LSE this Fall. What is your specialization going to be? Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:56:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#11638 Hey Gss, If I do attend it will likely be in Public International Law. What about you? Are you currently practicing in Canada? Tue, 28 Feb 2006 03:29:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#11649 Hey rah 23, I graduated from ubc law and will be practising in NY. I will probably specialize in tax or corporate/commerical law. We should definitely touch base if you come to LSE! Mon, 06 Mar 2006 11:06:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#11974 hi, has anyone else decided to go to ucl instead of king's? i will have to make a choice between ucl and king's very soon. would be helpful to hear some more thoughts on the best alternative Wed, 08 Mar 2006 10:59:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#12111 Seems we're all in the same boat re offers. I must admit I hadn't realised LSE was that much more expensive, although I'm still leaning towards it. Quick question to you all, though. How easy is it to combine, say,an econ course with the rest of your LLM subjects? Tue, 14 Mar 2006 19:45:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#12704 Hi everyone I am a Taiwanese and I got the offers of all these three schools. I've decided to go to LSE. I want to focus on internatoinal taxation. Does anyone know the contents of related courses in this school ? Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:39:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#13800 I'll probably go to UCL for LLM in Commercial and Corporate law. Anyone else going? I am from Colombia. Tue, 28 Mar 2006 01:53:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#14427 Hi Sophie, I was accepted to UCL and LSE, I“m interested in international finance and trade law so I decided to go to UCL, and soy de Bogotį! Sat, 08 Apr 2006 21:54:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#15984 Listen to this dilemma: I am accepted to Utrecht (Netherlands) for LLM; UCL for LLM, and LSE for a MSc in International Employment Relations (didn't get into the LLM)..... I am an American attorney praticing in the gerneral commercial and employment field, most likely intending on returning to the States to practice in the general field of Int'l Commercial/ Business Law. In the States, my impression is that "LSE" has the better brand name so to speak, as far as reputation and name recognition. Utrecht, is barely known here, and UCL is known, but not nearly as much as LSE. The issue is whether the "MSc" from LSE in the niche field of Int'l Employment Relations trumps the prestige of an "LLM" from either a Utrecht or UCL..... I may #@@%^&# the whole thing and just go to UCLA... any thoughts from people here? Thanks. Good luck to everyone on their apps. Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:55:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#16012 I'm a french lawyer currently working at Shearman and Sterling. I was admitted to LSE and UCL, and I decided that I will go to UCL. These are my reasons: 1. UCL is better ranked. 2. My main interest is International Business and Finance Law, and the partners of my firm recomend UCL over LSE in this topic.Indeed the LLM in International Business Law at UCL (comprising courses like Legal aspects of International Finance, International and Comparative Secured Transactions, Insolvency Law, International Business Transactions, etc) is one of the better taught modules of the UCL LL.M. Because of the practical nature of these courses, lecturers include both UCL Professors and practitioners fro leading Law Frims. Eg. Secured Transactions is taught by Profs Michael Bridge (of UCL), Frederique Dahan (Senior Legal Counsel of EBRD),Richard Calner (Partner at Norton Rose) and Ron Harmer (practitioner from New Zealand). International Finance is taught by Prof Graham Penn (Partner at Austin Sidley), Philip Rawlings (of UCL). 3. LSE has better brand name internationally and is excelent is topics such as Law and Development etc. Sun, 09 Apr 2006 23:30:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#16046 Listen to this dilemma: I am accepted to Utrecht (Netherlands) for LLM; UCL for LLM, and LSE for a MSc in International Employment Relations (didn't get into the LLM)..... I am an American attorney praticing in the gerneral commercial and employment field, most likely intending on returning to the States to practice in the general field of Int'l Commercial/ Business Law. In the States, my impression is that "LSE" has the better brand name so to speak, as far as reputation and name recognition. Utrecht, is barely known here, and UCL is known, but not nearly as much as LSE. The issue is whether the "MSc" from LSE in the niche field of Int'l Employment Relations trumps the prestige of an "LLM" from either a Utrecht or UCL..... I may #@@%^&# the whole thing and just go to UCLA... any thoughts from people here? Thanks. Good luck to everyone on their apps. I was just wondering, how come did you not get into the LLM at LSE? Where in the US did you go to law school? I am asking because basically, If you can get in to UCL, you should have gotten into LSE. The MSC program in LSE is probably harder to get in that the LLM in terms of the quality of applicants. Did you submit your LLM application late? Mon, 10 Apr 2006 06:10:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#16056 I applied to LSE in early January, is that considered late in the game?. I went to an average US Law School - specifically, Suffolk Univ. in Boston. The MSc at LSE was my 2nd preference to the LLM. Since I tend to have more of an interest in employment law than generic business law, I'm inclined to take the MSc in Int'l Employment Relations at LSE.....however, I also see the marketability of UCL s Int'l Business Law curriculum posted by one of the above people. I may be unduly narrowing my 'expertise' by the MSc, as it's more of a business/management oriented course. Even though UCL is tremendously respected globally, for some reason the LSE name carries much more weight with american law firms. Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#16097 Yes you applied kind of late. It is probably a little harder to get into an LLM program at LSE than previously. I went to LSE but UCL is an excellent school as well, if you do the LLM in UCL it might be advisable to work in the UK or on the continent for a bit as you are clearly correct since as far as american law firms go LSE is just after Oxbridge even though UCL law program (at least the LLB undergraduate degree) is ranked higher in the UK. Also many lawyers in the US also have MSC's rather than LLMs from LSE so you will not lose out. I would advise that you do the MSC and then later down the line do an LLM in the US. If that does not make financial sense, have you considered applying to Georgetown to do an LLM? If you look at the website you will find out that they are presently undersubscribed and are still taking applications. Look into it. Wed, 12 Apr 2006 01:33:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#16231 Thanks for the tips. I've spoke to a legal recruiter with Freshfields' NY Office, and she advised that they definitely hold LSE in top regard, whether the actual degree is "MSc" or "LLM" doesn't make much of a significant difference, especially where your prior work experience is substantial enough to prove you have the practical skills to succeed. However, since my MSc conveys a specialization in int'l employment, they obviously would channel my application to that specific dept; whereas a broader "int'l buinsess" llm would make more departments available to me. When you're paying close to US $50K for an advanced degree, I have to say that name brand really is the most important thing at the end of the day, so that's why I'm inclined to skip UCL and Utrecht (unless as you suggest I had a desire to work for the short term post-graduation in the UK or in europe, which I haven't ruled out). I didn't see your background - are you a British lawyer? Thanks re: Georgetown, but I'd much rather be overseas for a year than in D.C., at least until Bush leaves office! Cheers Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#16246 hi everyone. i've got thru both ucl and kcl. i also secured a place in warwick and manchester. can anyone suggest me which of the 2 (ucl and kcl) is better for corporate and commercial law? regards ! Wed, 12 Apr 2006 09:12:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#16261 hi sofi. i will also be joining ucl for corporate and commercial law. i am from india. regards Sun, 16 Apr 2006 22:47:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#16614 It is rather funny that when you feel alone in your amletic decision you jump into other guys same problems! Like to share to pain make it easier. Well, I am an Italian lawyer 30 years old 5 PEQ working since 2002 with an Italian middle market corporate boutique named Monaco e associati. Until now I received offers from KCL and Queen Mary and am still waiting fro UCL. I am interest in Banking and Finance LLM and course anyone can help?? Sherman can I ask why you did not consider neither KCL and Queen Mary?? I have been told that for the matters we are interested in specializing they are the best while UCL is great for public law (and international finance). Boh?? Mon, 17 Apr 2006 01:40:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#16619 KCL and UCL are equal as regards financial law I think. Class of International Finance taught at UCL (prof Penn) and at KCL (Prof Tennekoon) are both excellent, but the way of teaching is different, M Penn being more technical and close tro legal concepts. Banking Law seems to be better at KCL, but the scope of classes of banking law at UCL and KCL are different. KCL has the awesome M Dalhuisen in European Financial Law, which is absolutely a "must have" in my opinion. UCL has "Secured Transactions", which is also a "must have", and maybe next year a Corporate Finance class (to be confirmed). If you are from Italy, Italian people told me that KCL is more known than UCL in Italy. The same is true in France. But at the very end, lawfirms I know do not make the difference it seems. They rather focus on what you did during your LLM. Definitely, the best policy is to attend to both UCL and KCL classes thanks to the intercollegiate system, but rumors said that UCL and or KCL are about to quit next year (I said Rumours...) I am French and I choose UCL, because of the ranking and the reputation in the whole Commonwealth. I took International Finance at UCL, SecuredTransactions, European Financial Law at KCL, and ...Comparative Torts law at UCL taught by the awesome M Markesinis. I am very happy with my subjects. I Think UCL has maybe the slight adavantage to have other very good commercial subjects such as Corporate and especially Insolvency law too with M Fletcher. Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:34:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#16660 Hi there.. I've received offers from both LSE and UCL for their LLM programmes. I am from a commonwealth jurisdiction and am interested in common-law subjects, in particular Conflict of Laws and Restitution. Which school would you recommend? Mon, 17 Apr 2006 22:01:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#16670 I'm in for LSE as well. In your case, I would go for UCL. Their options are traditional common law courses. The LSE LLM is quite international - I don't think there's an option for Restitution at LLM level, and the Conflicts course is known by its civilian name as 'Private International Law.' Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:56:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#16691 Dear all, could you please advise me on the following. I received offer both from LSE&KCL. However due to the condition set from LSE (I was requested to obtain the Master's degree I am studying now, although this is a four year programm ending in 2007), I requested LSE a deferral and it was approved so that I could start LLM in LSE next year (2007/2008), ie. after I will receive my current degree. Do you think LSE is really that good and better that KCL to postpone studies from this autumn to the next and reject offer from KCL? To be honest my current studies are of a quite low quality, therefore I would like to start my studies in a well known university as soon as possible. Wed, 19 Apr 2006 05:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#16755 Hello guys. My name is Pablo and I'm a 28 years old peruvian lawyer. I want to apply for a taxation LLM programme in UK for 2007, but I don't have much information. I've heard that LSE has the best taxation programme, and it looks pretty good in their web site. Is LSE really the best choice for a taxation programme? Are there other schools with taxation programmes that I sholud be considering? Thanx a lot!! Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:38:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#16818 Thanks, studentbarista, best of luck at the LSE! Incidentally, does anyone know whether UCL / LSE allow LLM students to compete in its mooting teams? Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:34:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#17429 By the way chaps... Re LSE admissions: "Only Oxford and Cambridge have higher entry requirements." It's official - Times University Guide 2006 Tue, 30 May 2006 00:42:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#18621 Hi there everyone, I must agree with the point being made immediately above. I have recently completed an LLB degree and have recieved offers from KCL and LSE. The former is conditional on obtaining a 2:1 degree whilst the latter is conditional on obtaining a first class degree. As many of you who have studied in the UK will know, there is an enormous difference between 60% and 68%, let alone 70%. All in all, I can get into KCL by scraping a 2:1 but need a first for LSE. That must, objectively, be a strong indication of the standards of the respective courses in terms of the quality of class discussion and examination levels. It (the differing application standards) may also indicate a reason for LSE withdrawing from the rest of the London LLM programme, but this is speculation on my own behalf. Personally one cannot deny that KCL and the rest of the London programme offer an amazing variety of courses and I have no doubt that the programme is a quality one. Nevertheless, one surely cannot ignore what in my view is a fundamental discrepancy between the entry requirments of KCL and LSE, which in turn must, in some way, impact the reputation of the respective programmes. CRS Tue, 30 May 2006 12:19:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#18644 CRS, I am surprised to hear your offer condition for LSE is a first. Almost all people I know of have a straight 2:1 offer for LSE (including me). Perhaps timing of application has something to do with this - did you apply near to the deadline? If so I believe they may have set a higher condition as the competition for remaining places will be greater towards the deadline. I do not think there is a straightforward comparison between LSE and King's. Both are excellent institutions with strengths in different areas. Wed, 31 May 2006 01:32:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/10296/last#18690 I applied to LSE early (in December). Perhaps why my conditional offer is premised on a first class degree is due to the institution where I studied, which I would prefer not to name. You are entirely correct to point out that KCL and LSE have strengths in different areas and are both quality institutions. I was simply verifying the comment made immediately above to my initial entry that LSE has higher application requirements from my own personal experience. Whether there is any point of substance and merit to draw from my contribution is a matter of debate but if this thread seeks to discuss the differences between the major London LLM's then application standards must be discussed. Of course, if one is contemplating studying courses at KCL that are not offered at LSE and vice versa, then there is no point in making comparisons. However, if one is contemplating studying the same subjects at both institutions then a comparison is certainly warranted. Moreover, if there is a difference in application standards it must be asked why that is so. Is the answer to this question (assuming it to be in the affirmative) reflected in the additional fees charged by LSE? Is one paying for better teaching, resources and facilities? Is LSE better respected in the workplace? Is there no difference whatsover and my speculation and observations are unfounded and misguided? I appreciate your response as it may be valuable in helping me make an important decision for my education. I must stress that I am only drawing what I consider to be reasonable inferences of fact from my own experience which is consistent with conclusions published by independent observers. Your input is appreciated, CRS