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New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)

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raven
Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Posts: 64
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Thu May 12, 2011 12:33 PM
(3) An LL.M. degree shall be satisfactory to qualify an applicant otherwise meeting the requirements of subsections (b)(1)(ii) or (b)(2) to take the New York State bar examination provided the following requirements are met:

(i) the program shall consist of a minimum of 24 semester hours of credit (or the equivalent thereof, if the law school is on an academic schedule other than a conventional semester system) which, except as otherwise permitted herein, shall be in classroom courses at the law school in substantive and procedural law and professional skills; and

(ii) a minimum of 700 minutes of instruction time, exclusive of examination time, must be required for the granting of one semester of credit; and

(iii) the program shall include a period of instruction consisting of no fewer than two semesters of at least 13 calendar weeks each, or the equivalent thereof, exclusive of reading periods, examinations and breaks, and shall not be completed exclusively during summer semesters, but a maximum of four semester hours of credit may be earned in courses completed during summer semesters; and

(iv) the program shall be completed within 24 months of matriculation; and

(v) all coursework for the program shall be completed at the campus of an approved law school in the United States, except as otherwise expressly permitted by subdivision (b)(3)(vii); and

(vi) the program completed by applicant shall include:

(a) a minimum of two semester hours of credit in the history, goals, instruction, value, rules and responsibilities of the United States legal profession and its members; and

(b) a minimum of two semester hours of credit in legal research, writing and analysis, which may not be satisfied by a research and writing requirement in a substantive law course; and

(c) a minimum of two semester hours of credit in American legal studies, the American legal system or a similar course designed to introduce students to distinctive aspects and/or fundamental principles of United States law, which may be satisfied by a course in United States constitutional law or United States or state civil procedure; credit earned in such course in excess of the required two semester hours of credit may be applied in satisfaction of the requirement of subdivision (b)(3)(vi)(d); and

(d) a minimum of six semester hours of credit in other courses in subjects tested on the New York State bar examination, where a principal focus of the courses includes material contained in the Content Outline for the New York State bar examination published by the New York State Board of Law Examiners.

(vii) The program completed by applicant may include:

(a) a maximum of four semester hours of credit in clinical courses, provided (1) the clinical course includes a classroom instructional component in order to insure contemporaneous discussion, review and evaluation of the clinical experience; (2) the clinical work is done under the direct supervision of a member of the law school faculty or instructional staff whose primary professional employment is with the law school; and (3) the time and effort required and anticipated educational benefit are commensurate with the credit awarded; and

(b) a maximum of six semester hours of credit in other courses related to legal training taught by members of the faculty of the law school or of the university with which the law school is affiliated, or taught by members of the faculty of any university or college with which the law school offers a joint degree program, provided such courses must be completed at the campus of such university or college in the United States.

(viii) No credit shall be allowed for correspondence courses, on-line courses, courses offered on DVD or other media, or other distance learning courses.

(c) Proof required. The applicant shall submit to the New York State Board of Law Examiners such proof of compliance with the provisions of this section as the board may require.

(d) Effective date for implementation. The provisions of existing Rule 520.6 shall continue to apply to those applicants applying to take a bar examination prior to the July 2013 bar examination, except that the requirements of subdivisions (b)(3)(iii), (v) and (viii) are effective immediately. All other provisions of this amended Rule shall first apply to programs commencing during the 2012-13 academic year and to applicants applying to take the July 2013 bar examination, subject to the saving clause of Rule 520.1(b).
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mikado
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 149
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Fri May 13, 2011 09:32 AM
Terrible news.
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amerfrance
Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 43
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Fri May 13, 2011 09:54 AM

[Edited by amerfrance on 19 Jun 2012]

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iamhzt
Joined: 12 Mar 2011
Posts: 4
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Fri May 13, 2011 04:11 PM
I think it may mean that LLM students are going to have less freedom to formulate their course schedule.

However, I have a question: according to 520 (d), are 2011-2012 LL.M. students still eligible to sit for NY Bar Exam by completing a 20-credit program because the existing Rule 520.6 shall continue to apply to those applicants applying to take a bar examination prior to the July 2013 bar examination?

[Edited by iamhzt on 13 May 2011]

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Mike Pendergast
Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 10
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Mon May 16, 2011 01:21 PM
What about the saving clause?

Let's suppose an LLM that still meets the requirements under the current rules and finished the LLM degree on 2005 applies for the NY Bar exam in 2014. Would the applicant still be eligible given that the rules in effect in 2005 would have made the applicant eligible?
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mikado
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 149
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Tue May 17, 2011 07:21 AM
What about the saving clause?

Let's suppose an LLM that still meets the requirements under the current rules and finished the LLM degree on 2005 applies for the NY Bar exam in 2014. Would the applicant still be eligible given that the rules in effect in 2005 would have made the applicant eligible?


Interesting question.

Although not very clear, they do state that these new regulations apply to candidates pursuing an LL.M. in 2012/2013. So my guess would be previous graduates are still fine...


Why do I think this is terrible (but understandable)? A lot less flexibility for students in choosing their courses... What if you want to specialize in Arbitration and/or International economic law, International Human Rights, International Public Law, WTO law, etc. and still want to sit the bar?
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Nail
Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 190
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Mon May 23, 2011 01:20 PM
This is just terrible! It will so drammatically affect every LLM program...2 credits for legal ethics?2 for legal writing and 2 of history of the American legal system?That is not a simple one-week introductory course... all those require a serious semester-long course (maybe taught a couple of hourse once a week?)!

I was going to apply for the NYU at NUS program for 2012/2013, I guess now I will have to reconsider it cause they won't be able to offer eligibility for the NY bar any more...any thoughts on that??
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AAAAAstar
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 51
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Tue May 24, 2011 07:29 PM

[Edited by AAAAAstar on 24 May 2011]

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AAAAAstar
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 51
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Tue May 24, 2011 07:34 PM
This is just terrible! It will so drammatically affect every LLM program...2 credits for legal ethics?2 for legal writing and 2 of history of the American legal system?That is not a simple one-week introductory course... all those require a serious semester-long course (maybe taught a couple of hourse once a week?)!


Completely concur with the above reply! What the hell did this new rule talk about?
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Voice.of.Reason
Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 110
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Tue May 24, 2011 07:56 PM
Personally, I do not think it is so ridiculous to require some of the coursework that is required of USA JD graduates if the LLM graduate wants the benefit of becoming a member of an American Bar Association. USA JD students have to take a full year of required courses, largely in topics that they will not specifically use.
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Augusto
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 116
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Tue May 24, 2011 09:43 PM
b) Saving Clause. Those provisions of the rules of the Court of Appeals for the admission of attorneys and counselors at law that prescribe the qualifications for admission to the New York State bar examination, which were in effect at the time an applicant for admission commenced the study of law, to the extent that the application thereof was or would have been less restrictive or burdensome, shall determine the applicant's eligibility for admission to such examination. In other words, the "old" rules will continue to apply to students who commenced their LL.M. study prior to April 2011, i.e. the current and earlier graduating classes, REGARDLESS of when they take the bar exam.  The old rules will also apply to the class of 2012, but only if the students take the bar exam in July 2012 or February 2013.

What about the saving clause?

Let's suppose an LLM that still meets the requirements under the current rules and finished the LLM degree on 2005 applies for the NY Bar exam in 2014. Would the applicant still be eligible given that the rules in effect in 2005 would have made the applicant eligible?


Interesting question.

Although not very clear, they do state that these new regulations apply to candidates pursuing an LL.M. in 2012/2013. So my guess would be previous graduates are still fine...


Why do I think this is terrible (but understandable)? A lot less flexibility for students in choosing their courses... What if you want to specialize in Arbitration and/or International economic law, International Human Rights, International Public Law, WTO law, etc. and still want to sit the bar?
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mikado
Joined: 30 Jun 2010
Posts: 149
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Wed May 25, 2011 04:59 AM
Better not fail the July 2012 and/or february 2013 exams...
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AAAAAstar
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 51
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Fri May 27, 2011 03:19 PM
but is it too late to prove the eligibility to sit for the NY Bar?
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Mike Pendergast
Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 10
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Sat May 28, 2011 07:56 PM
but is it too late to prove the eligibility to sit for the NY Bar?


What do you mean?
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AAAAAstar
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 51
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Sun May 29, 2011 11:43 AM
but is it too late to prove the eligibility to sit for the NY Bar?


What do you mean?


I saw that the test taker must prove the eligibility to take the NY Bar 1 year in advance and(I quite sure that it said the test taker should send the related document to BOLE in ?? April 2011)

so, my point is that if it is too late then, WHAT SHOULD I DO?

if not -> how could I secure the related document (especially (C)(2) and (D)

(SECTION VI -- REQUIRED DOCUMENTATION--)


".......•(c) Proof of fulfillment of the educational requirements for admission to the practice of law in the foreign country.

(1) If you are admitted to practice law in a foreign country, attach a copy of your admission certificate, OR

(2) If you are not admitted to practice law in a foreign country, submit proof of the educational requirements for admission to practice law in your country and proof that you have fulfilled these requirements.

•(d) Accreditation. Submit a written statement from the competent accrediting agency of your foreign government that the law school or schools you attended were recognized by them as qualified and approved throughout your period of study.
....."
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417148
Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Posts: 15
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Sat Jun 11, 2011 06:25 PM
From what I cam see these new rules - 24 credit inter alia, apply only in event of deficiency - substantive or durational.

@AAA star - document from the statutory body itself to certify that the law school was recognised? Thats some requirement.
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Deepblue
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 14
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:24 PM
In my opinion, LL.M. students completing their program next academic year will still benefit form the old rules, even if they take the Bar Exam from July 2013 onwards.

Since Section (3)(viii)(d) of the amended Rule 520.6 clearly states that "The provisions of existing Rule 520.6 shall continue to apply to those applicants applying to take a bar examination prior to the July 2013 bar examination, except that the requirements of subdivisions (b)(3)(iii), (v) and (viii) are effective immediately."

This means that the 20 minimum credits remain in force besides that except the fact that they have to be "professional law subjects", there are no restrictions on what subjects to choose from.

How the new provisions are ought to be interpreted can be found on the official NY State Bar Examiners website. Consult Section IV (A) of the "Foreign Legal Education Admissions Information."

The Board specifically excludes the new modified Rule 520.6 for those "applicants enrolled in a program prior to the 2012-2013 academic year".(www.nybarexam.org/Foreign/ForeignLegalEducation.htm)


Furhermore since the amended rule also states that "All other provisions of this amended Rule shall first apply to programs commencing during the 2012-13 academic year and to applicants applying to take the July 2013 bar examination, subject to the saving clause of Rule 520.1(b)."

This means in my opinion that you have to be an LL.M. student "commencing during the 2012-13 academic year" AND ADDITIONALLY "applying to take the July 2013 bar examination".
So if you are enrolled in a 2011-2012 LL.M. program and apply to take the July 2013 bar examination, the new amended provisions in force since May 18, 2011 will not apply to you. I come to this conclusion as I could not find any indication in the NY Bar Examiners interpretation (Section IV (A)+(B) that says any different (www.nybarexam.org/Foreign/ForeignLegalEducation.htm).

If I am wrong, I stand corrected, but I really think that those commencing their LL.M. programme in 2011-12 will always benefit from the old admissions criteria, irrespective of the year they want to take the bar exam, even after July 2013.

[Edited by Deepblue on 12 Jun 2011]

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AAAAAstar
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 51
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Sun Jun 12, 2011 05:19 PM
In my opinion, LL.M. students completing their program next academic year will still benefit form the old rules, even if they take the Bar Exam from July 2013 onwards.

Since Section (3)(viii)(d) of the amended Rule 520.6 clearly states that "The provisions of existing Rule 520.6 shall continue to apply to those applicants applying to take a bar examination prior to the July 2013 bar examination, except that the requirements of subdivisions (b)(3)(iii), (v) and (viii) are effective immediately."

This means that the 20 minimum credits remain in force besides that except the fact that they have to be "professional law subjects", there are no restrictions on what subjects to choose from.

How the new provisions are ought to be interpreted can be found on the official NY State Bar Examiners website. Consult Section IV (A) of the "Foreign Legal Education Admissions Information."

The Board specifically excludes the new modified Rule 520.6 for those "applicants enrolled in a program prior to the 2012-2013 academic year".(www.nybarexam.org/Foreign/ForeignLegalEducation.htm)


Furhermore since the amended rule also states that "All other provisions of this amended Rule shall first apply to programs commencing during the 2012-13 academic year and to applicants applying to take the July 2013 bar examination, subject to the saving clause of Rule 520.1(b)."

This means in my opinion that you have to be an LL.M. student "commencing during the 2012-13 academic year" AND ADDITIONALLY "applying to take the July 2013 bar examination".
So if you are enrolled in a 2011-2012 LL.M. program and apply to take the July 2013 bar examination, the new amended provisions in force since May 18, 2011 will not apply to you. I come to this conclusion as I could not find any indication in the NY Bar Examiners interpretation (Section IV (A)+(B) that says any different (www.nybarexam.org/Foreign/ForeignLegalEducation.htm).

If I am wrong, I stand corrected, but I really think that those commencing their LL.M. programme in 2011-12 will always benefit from the old admissions criteria, irrespective of the year they want to take the bar exam, even after July 2013.



Your comments are always all the sage advice Sir Deepblue!

[Edited by AAAAAstar on 12 Jun 2011]

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Deepblue
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 14
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Sun Jun 12, 2011 08:53 PM
Hey AAAAAstar,

Sir Deepblue...I sense some irony in your comment;-)

If not, thank you.

I honestly think that it is the case that the old rules will apply to NYS Bar Exam takers after July 2013 that will be enrolled in a 2011-2012 LL.M. programme since on the bottom of the NYS Bar Examiners website on Rule 520.6 (www.nybarexam.org/Foreign/ForeignLegalEducation.htm) you can find a very useful PDF comparison on how the rules will apply for the 2011-12 and 2012-13 LL.M. students respectively (www.nybarexam.org/Docs/ComparisonRule520.6.pdf).
Again not one word on the pertinence or importance of the test date for the 2011-12 programme.

Hope that helps to clarify this with no doubt confusing amendment of Rule 520.6.

Cheers

[Edited by Deepblue on 12 Jun 2011]

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AAAAAstar
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 51
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Sun Jun 12, 2011 08:55 PM
Hey AAAAAstar,

Sir Deepblue...I sense some irony in your comment;-)



Definitely, not :)
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Deepblue
Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 14
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Sun Jun 12, 2011 09:16 PM
@AAAAAstar, then, you're more than welcome!

Concerning those that are going to be enrolled in a 2011-12 LL.M. programme, it makes sense that the "July 2013" condition specified in section (d) of the Rule 520.6 amendment applies only to those commencing their LL.M. programme in 2012-13 since otherwise the limitation of the amended Rule 520.6 admission criteria would be obsolete.

Because why say that the amended Rule 520.6 does not apply to the programmes "commenced prior to 2012-13" if potential test takers that want to sit the July 2013 session would be excluded since they did participate in a programme that did not comply with the new amended Rule 520.6 criteria.

This would effectively mean that they could just sit 2 sessions (the July 2012 and February 2013 sessions), and then would be excluded, whereas those enrolled in the 2010-11 programme would still be allowed to sit. This would come down to forcing those enrolled in the 2011-12 programme to already comply with the new rules to be allowed to sit the July 2013 session.

That would be a non-sensical provision as those in a 2011-12 would have to either already fulfil the new amended admissions criteria or be forced to absolutely pass the July 2012 or February 2013 sessions because elsewise they would not be able to sit again given that they would then become ineligible.

Of the Rule 520.6 amendment, only "subdivisions (b)(3)(iii), (v) and (viii) are effective immediately" , the others for those commencing their LL.M. programme in 2012-13 and sitting their first possible NYS Bar Exam session in July 2013.

[Edited by Deepblue on 12 Jun 2011]

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AAAAAstar
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 51
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Mon Jun 27, 2011 04:52 PM
But, with respect to NY BOLE website, there seems to have some documents like 520.6 --section VI-- Required Documentation(foreigned educated applicant) -> 4. Accreditation

"Submit a written statement from the competent accrediting agency of your foreign government that the law school or schools you attended were recognized by them as qualified and approved throughout your period of study. "

I think such mentioned document cannot be found in my country(Thailand) but as the first & widely regarded as the best law school in Thailand, it should be OK. that my law school is fully accredited by the gvmt. That being said, to make sure for my eligibility to sit for the NY Bar., I would like to ask some of
you guys(especially foreigners)about how to secure this particular documentation?

[Edited by AAAAAstar on 27 Jun 2011]

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Mike Pendergast
Joined: 08 Apr 2010
Posts: 10
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Thu Jul 07, 2011 04:16 AM
But, with respect to NY BOLE website, there seems to have some documents like 520.6 --section VI-- Required Documentation(foreigned educated applicant) -> 4. Accreditation

"Submit a written statement from the competent accrediting agency of your foreign government that the law school or schools you attended were recognized by them as qualified and approved throughout your period of study. "

I think such mentioned document cannot be found in my country(Thailand) but as the first & widely regarded as the best law school in Thailand, it should be OK. that my law school is fully accredited by the gvmt. That being said, to make sure for my eligibility to sit for the NY Bar., I would like to ask some of
you guys(especially foreigners)about how to secure this particular documentation?


Has this requirement always been there or is it part of the new rules?
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Nic1746
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 52
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Thu Jul 07, 2011 01:38 PM
But, with respect to NY BOLE website, there seems to have some documents like 520.6 --section VI-- Required Documentation(foreigned educated applicant) -> 4. Accreditation

"Submit a written statement from the competent accrediting agency of your foreign government that the law school or schools you attended were recognized by them as qualified and approved throughout your period of study. "

I think such mentioned document cannot be found in my country(Thailand) but as the first & widely regarded as the best law school in Thailand, it should be OK. that my law school is fully accredited by the gvmt. That being said, to make sure for my eligibility to sit for the NY Bar., I would like to ask some of
you guys(especially foreigners)about how to secure this particular documentation?


Has this requirement always been there or is it part of the new rules?



just go to the website and ask for the assessment. they will ask you to send your transcripts. i didnt ask for any written statement from govt agency. i just downloaded a form for request for eligibility then attached my transcript. after 5 weeks i got a letter saying im eligible.
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mrj
Joined: 18 Aug 2011
Posts: 12
New rules for NY Bar Exam (LLM)
Fri Aug 19, 2011 01:38 AM


[Edited by mrj on 19 Aug 2011]

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