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Why NOT to study in Holland

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prof.service
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 1
Why NOT to study in Holland
Mon Jun 13, 2011 01:03 PM
I am very disappointed by the attitude in general of the Dutch people. First of all, the Dutch students are always privileged. The grades of the international students are always cut whereas the Dutch students receive the highest grades.
Further, you can immediately feel the difference in the attitude, if you come from, for instance, Africa, or a country in Eastern Europe, or other developing region.
I am deeply sorry that I chose the Netherlands for studying, although I have been a quite successful student here. It was a huge mistake. That is because the Netherlands is quite an unfriendly country, even though students actually come to study here, and not to "steal jobs", or "work for less money than the Dutch do", as most Dutch people think and say.
Also, the agency of the university where I studied, takes much higher rent prices from international students, in comparison with what Dutch students pay for it which is an obvious form of discrimination.
Dutch people, who originally come from other countries, such as Morocco, are looked at in a different way, I have heard plenty of them complaining they are treated on a discriminatory basis and it is hard for them to get decent jobs.That`s it.
Please, do not invest your money for studying in a country like that-it`s not worth it!
It was quite a disappointment, that is why I would not advise foreign students to come in a country like that.
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Guardia Imperial
Joined: 18 Apr 2011
Posts: 12
Why NOT to study in Holland
Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:21 PM
Having lived in Holland for more than 20 years, I partially agree with your general observations of the unfriendly attitude of the Dutch people and the discrimination towards certain persons.

However, just like in any other country, there are still sufficient nice people living in Holland. The problem is that it is not particularly easy to meet them.

On the other hand, Dutch universities have a good reputation (certainly not Harvard or Cambridge, but when it comes to LLM's I reckon they would come directly after the top US and UK universities) and if you are a EU citizen the tuition is about 1600/1700 euro which is value for money in my opinion.

Conclusion: it is not really pleasant to live in Holland, but it still offers good value for decent LLM programmes in International and European Law.
In addition, international students tend to hang around with each other in stead of hanging around with local students. So you could just ignore annoying Dutchies ;)
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kippa27
Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 12
Why NOT to study in Holland
Mon Jun 20, 2011 07:29 AM
Hello,

I am going to study at Tilburg this fall, so I am not very pleased at what you described, but I kinda counted with that. I am from Slovakia, which is considered as eastern Europe by most of the westerners, so I am bit used to prejudices in this part of Europe. The thing is Easterners have to work pretty hard to get to foreign Unis and they are most often more hard-working and more ambitious than home students. I agree that I will try to hang around with international students. I also noticed the discrimination with the accommodation, I think it is horrible and someone should point finger on that...at least EU students, but in my personal opinnion all students should have the same conditions.

By the way, from the people that received scholarship from my Uni, most of them are from developing countries and eastern Europe....adn the scholarship was based on academical merit...

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LA
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 1
Why NOT to study in Holland
Wed Jun 22, 2011 06:37 AM
Hello.
I completely agree with the post! I have studied LL.M in Commercial law at the Erasmus University and my impressions are the same. The Dutch students are always privileged with the grades. If you are foreigner , you get 6 or 7, no matter how hard you study. If you have Dutch name, you have 8 or 9. I even remember that the professor of Commercial law did a huge mistake on the exam by putting wrong information in one of the questions. Later on, he did not even apologize, however he cut the grades of the international students too much.
All of the international students were complaining but still nothing changed.
I also think it is an absolute discrimination that the Dutch pay like a 100 EU less than international students for accommodation. That is a pure form of discrimination indeed and it`s nowhere in the world like this.
I would not advise a foreigner to study in Holland.
It`s just a small country and the Dutch people do not really like foreigners although their country is full of people from Surinam and Morocco and other Arabian countries.
It is also a big political issue. I don`t think that a country in which a crazy politician like Wilders wins 20 % of the votes, could be friendly to foreigners...
You have been warned about the unfriendly Netherlands, now the choice is yours!
If I could turn back time, I would definitely go to Belgium or Norway or Ireland or Scotland.
Actually any OTHER country would be better...
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coffee_sunshine
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 20
Why NOT to study in Holland
Wed Jun 22, 2011 05:04 PM
What you guys are describing sounds aweful. I also studied in the Netherlands (Maastricht U) but now I am very grateful that I had very positive experiences. At my Uni each student was allocated a student number, so that the teachers didn't know whether the exam they corrected was from a Dutch or an International student. Accomodation prices were same for all nationalities and tuition fees were all the same for EU Member State nationals. In my case I never experienced any kind of discrimination. It might have to do with the fact that Maastricht University is very international, but I assumed all Universities in the Netherlands were open to foreign nationals :(
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wow
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 2
Go to Tilburg, it`s the best choice in the Netherlands
Wed Jun 22, 2011 05:23 PM
Well, I also agree with the post.
I have studied at the Erasmus Uni (LL.M in Commercial law). It was a huge mistake.
As far as I know most of my classmates from EUR are very disappointed.
The student administration is arrogant, in particular the exam administration.When you go in their office to ask for something, they either talk on the phone, or eat, basically doing anything else, but helping students.
If I could turn back time, I would most probably to Tilburg University to study IBL there. The biggest difference is that Tilburg University is a private Uni and everyone working there is doing their best for the students whereas EUR is a state Uni and the staff doesn`t care too much for students.
Actually I also applied at Tilburg and I had really great impressions of them from the very beginning unlike the impressions from the EUR.
In addition to that, I have a few friends who studied at Tilburg University and they are completely satisfied with their studies.
Well, for me it`s too late, but I truly hope this post will help others to make a decision.

[Edited by wow on 22 Jun 2011]

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wow
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 2
Go to Tilburg, it`s the best choice in the Netherlands
Wed Jun 22, 2011 05:27 PM
Btw, it`s a great idea students to write down only a student number at the exams, why at Erasmus University they made us write our names, instead of using only student number??
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Guardia Imperial
Joined: 18 Apr 2011
Posts: 12
Go to Tilburg, it`s the best choice in the Netherlands
Wed Jun 22, 2011 07:32 PM
The biggest difference is that Tilburg University is a private Uni and everyone working there is doing their best for the students whereas EUR is a state Uni and the staff doesn`t care too much for students.



Tilburg University is indeed tecnically a private legal entity, though it could rather be characterised as a non-profit foundation. It might well be that Tilburg University is better than EUR and that their staff is more helpful than the EUR's staff. However, this has got nothing to do with being a 'state uni' or 'private uni', a distinction which does not exist in Holland. Both are publicly funded and possess chiefly the same organisation and structure. Differences between both legal entities can be noticed only in very peculiar cases.

For those considering Tilburg, the city itself one of the ugliest cities in Holland and in addition horribly boring and relatively far from Amsterdam/The Hague. Rotterdam is relatively pleasant to live in and has got something of a metropolitan/international atmosphere. Of course when one comes to Holland just in order to study in a calm academic environment, then Tilburg is a good choice, but personally I would not even spend a week in Tilburg.
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jaspers
Joined: 20 Mar 2011
Posts: 9
Go to Tilburg, it`s the best choice in the Netherlands
Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:27 PM
Did anyone have these sorts of experiences at Leiden? A bit concerned now ...
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dresdner
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 11
Go to Tilburg, it`s the best choice in the Netherlands
Thu Jun 23, 2011 07:12 AM
Hi Jaspers,

I got my LLM from Leiden two years ago - don't worry, you'll have a great time there. I partly agree that the dutchies aren't the most pleasant people on the planet, although I made a lot of dutch friends. In Leiden you'll see that most Dutch students will keep to themselves, which has something to do with the fact that the great majority of them have done their undergrad degree in Leiden as well and have firmly established social networks. But there will be plenty of international students to hang out with. Leiden itself is a really nice town to study, loads of little student bars etc. Accommodation is tricky, the agencies indeed charge extra if you're international. But you can find a private room at normal market prices.
So overall, living in Holland can be tricky, but it can be great fun as well, and in the very international and diverse Leiden LLM programme you'll have no problems at all (plus most of the lecturers are actually non-dutch, so no need to worry about disadvantageous grading - I've not experienced that at all)
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anettevs
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 10
Why NOT to study in Holland
Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:30 AM
Dear Wow and LA,

I was surprised to read your posts. I would very much like to invite you to come and talk about this over a cup of coffee. Please contact me before 1 July if possible.

Kind regards,
Anette van Sandwijk
International Relations Manager
Erasmus School of Law

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ckn
Joined: 28 Jun 2011
Posts: 1
Why NOT to study in Holland
Wed Jun 29, 2011 08:38 AM
Interesting posts here:)
As an LL.M graduate in Commercial law at the EUR, I can confirm about the rent for international students the agency Stadswonen charges. It`s true they charge internationals more.It is also true that they give the best rooms to the Dutch students as well, at lower prices which is not fair.
It`s also true that at the EUR they make one write down his/her name at exams, and not only student number as it should be.
I strongly disagree with the part that the stdent administration is not doing their job well.
The LL.M office are really nice, friendly and helpful, especially Anette and the other student advisors working at the LL.M office.
Big thanks to you, Anette.
The quality of the lecturing at the EUR is really high, especially Prof. Van Boom`s lectures. I absolutely loved prof. Kramer`s lectures as well.
To sum up, I am definitely proud that I am a graduate of the Erasmus University of Rotterdam and I highly recommend it to anyone who wants to gain solid knowledge in the field of commercial law.

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Ww
Joined: 05 Jul 2011
Posts: 1
Why NOT to study in Holland
Wed Jul 06, 2011 04:04 PM
Hey, Thank you for posting this information, We, as international students, that might never being in The Netherlands before can fall in the mistake to go there like you did. After all, this things matters, and make a big difference and does not appear in the Web pages.

Plus, those are LLM academies, there are supposed to be full of educated people and its a first world country, i could not expect this kind of things happening there.

Sorry for your bad experiences, guys, and thank you again for prevent me to be miss treated.
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kippa27
Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 12
Why NOT to study in Holland
Wed Jul 06, 2011 08:08 PM
Hello,

Although I agree that information from the former students are really very valuable source of information, I would not decide , whether to study or not in Holland based only on several posts. I mean every country has its pros and cons and in every country different than yours , you will have to cope with different issues, right? You are not going to study in Fairy Land where everybody lives happilly ever after.
I still think Netherlands is a great place to study although you will have to overcome few uncomfortable things....


Good luck in your decision.....
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trustworthy
Joined: 07 Jul 2011
Posts: 1
Why NOT to study LL.M in Commercial law at the Erasmus University
Fri Jul 08, 2011 09:01 PM
Honestly, very very bad impressions from EUR`s LL.M in Commercial law.
Prof.****** tolerates not nice attitude to international students.
I can provide evidence but I`m not willing to.
EUR should completely change their service. There`s no respect at all for international students from the Dutch people at EUR, including classmates. As I said, I can provide all information for you and you will completely agree with me but let`s not do that on the Internet.
Not the right place to study for sure!
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erw
Joined: 14 Sep 2011
Posts: 3
Why NOT to study LL.M in Commercial law at the Erasmus University
Thu Sep 15, 2011 03:18 PM
Hello...

I think maybe the region where the people come from can influence in their character.

For example, all the negative commentaries in this post are about ERU and Leiden.

My question is, if someone here has had experience in Amsterdam, particular in Amsterdam University, as Amsterdam is a city when they see foreign people all time, they maybe can be more open and friendly than the Dutchs in Leiden or Rotterdam.
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krki

Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 1
Why NOT to study LL.M in Commercial law at the Erasmus University
Fri Dec 16, 2011 03:04 PM
Hi guys,

I am currently doing my LLM in Maastricht, and I must say that university is ok, and i didn't feel too much discrimination. I am from Serbia, so people often treat me weird, until they really meet me.
Regarding Dutch people, I must say that they are not so happy about foreigners, but in Maastricht they had to get used to it since here large number of students are coming from abroad.
Nevertheless, one should choose his LLM programme on the basis of programme structure, and opportunities for work after that. There are plenty of internationals willing to find friends.

good luck guys!
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Lejlax
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 1
Why NOT to study LL.M in Commercial law at the Erasmus University
Mon Aug 20, 2012 02:12 PM
Hello, My name is Lejla, I come from Bosnia and Herzegovina and in 2 years I would really like to go to study at tilburg University. I see that most of you had bad experiences, so I would like to ask is there any opportunities for scholarship to afford yourselfe going to university? I would like to get in contact with someone who went through the procedure so they could explain me and help me what shhould I do?

Thank You in forward,
If someone wants to help me my e-mail is: [email protected]
Kind regards,
Lejla
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Adam89
Joined: 14 Nov 2011
Posts: 15
Why NOT to study LL.M in Commercial law at the Erasmus University
Mon Aug 20, 2012 03:19 PM
I'm sad and at the same time glad to read these negative comments. I'm sad to hear that so many international students had such negative experiences (of discrimination). I'm also glad because now I know that I wasn't the only one. Actually, I'm Dutch. However, I left the country to continue my studies in Brussels because I couldn't stand the general racist, xenophobic and islamophobic mood in the country since the year '2000s. People who have never lived in Holland think that the entire country is like what they imagine Amsterdam to be. Well, the reality is that the laws are progressive but not the people per se. As a black muslim, I can tell you that I always wondered how people that are so rich can be at the same time so backward about people who do not look like them. Being backward is unforgiveable when you are so wealthy and "educated".....

PS: Maastricht and Amsterdam university don't have such good reputation INSIDE the Netherlands. I always found it funny how all international students think they're wonderful..
Links: www.washingtonpost.com/world/geert-wilders-of-the-netherland…
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MarkErasmus
Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 1
Why NOT to study LL.M in Commercial law at the Erasmus University
Thu Mar 28, 2013 05:22 PM
Sadly I have to agree with the people before. I am doin the LLM Commercial Law at the Erasmus right now and I advice everyone NOT!!! to study there. I would not choose the program again.

The most stupid thing whats happening there is, that you HAVE to buy their readers, beause these are the only materials which are allow in the exams. The argumentation is: "Because there is copyright on it". Yeah lol, which ones? professor Frank Smeele and professor Xandra Kramer (both professors at the Erasmus) + from some guest lectures. This all would not be a problem, if this were readers for 10 Euro, but they sell them for 95 Euro. And you HAVE to buy a orig. one, cause no copies are allowed. Above this, they build up the exams on this readers, so they make shure, neither you buy their readers or you have a high chance to fail. In my country we would call that a criminal act of "accepting advantage" and we would fire such a professor at the same day for such a abuse of possition. Sadly this is not the case here. And with the 95 Euro thats still not the end of the story, cause you need also to buy the legislation and other readers for the course, so you might ending up, spending 450 Euro just for one block, which is way to much, especially cause not every professor there is the same. We had a very nice teaching professor (Marnix van Ginneken - corporat governance) which told us to buy a book at the book store for his exam. Costed 25 Euro and he had 2 questions (of about 15) in his exam. Threre you can see, that some of these people still have some manners left! But sadly thats rare at the Erasmus.
And if your are pointing up such kind of missleadin it gots even worse. I was stupid enough to nag about this practice to professor Kramer via e-mail and than she directly involved prof. Smeele, who on the other hand is not just a professor, also he is the program director and invited me for a meeting. I never replied to it, cause I saw the situation already coming that he will probably get very pissed, since I heared a other student naged about the practice before and followed the invitation were he screamed and shout at him.
Later on I met him at the Starbucks (which is inside the Erasmus) were he was naged at me in a very unprofessional way and not in line with his job title in relation with his title(s), but weren't able to scream or smth., cause there were to many people waited in the line for their cofee.

However what I cannot agree with it, is the discrimination part. I do live in a same sex relationship, which is not a big secret, even tho I am not flyin into the lectures. That is not a problem here, also not, if you are non-EU or non-Dutch.
My last name also not contains a 'van' or smth like this and I did not had the feelin so far, that I got discriminited about it in the exam grading.

But in summ I can defently NOT advice you to choose any program at this University. It is a abuse of the students wallets, without letting them a choice, incl. a 'soft-force' while it is the only allowed material and you prbl will not pass the exams without these readers.

If you want to choose such a program, have a look at Brussels Univ., they offer these as well or any other University in the world. I defently would not choose it again.

Best wishes for your choice
Mark
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Wheretogo_
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 297
Why NOT to study LL.M in Commercial law at the Erasmus University
Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:47 AM
Oh my I hope this is not the same with other dutch Universities such as Groningen!
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AgentSmith
Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Posts: 22
Why NOT to study LL.M in Commercial law at the Erasmus University
Fri Mar 29, 2013 06:44 PM
I have studied at the three biggest and best ranked universities in Holland. I've also studied at a university in the UK that does not appear on any ranking list. None of the three Dutch universities can match the customer service, professionality and quality of education provided by the British university. So, if you are a non-EU citizen and have to pay for education, know that the prices of education in the NL are close to those in the UK, but the quality of education is 10 times less than in the UK.
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Wheretogo_
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 297
Why NOT to study LL.M in Commercial law at the Erasmus University
Fri Mar 29, 2013 08:08 PM
I have studied at the three biggest and best ranked universities in Holland. I've also studied at a university in the UK that does not appear on any ranking list. None of the three Dutch universities can match the customer service, professionality and quality of education provided by the British university. So, if you are a non-EU citizen and have to pay for education, know that the prices of education in the NL are close to those in the UK, but the quality of education is 10 times less than in the UK.


Any views on Groningen agent? Btw I am EU so the fees are very good...

[Edited by Wheretogo_ on 29 Mar 2013]

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AgentSmith
Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Posts: 22
Why NOT to study LL.M in Commercial law at the Erasmus University
Fri Mar 29, 2013 08:15 PM
Any views on Groningen agent? Btw I am EU so the fees are very good...

Nothing about the University. The town itself is in the middle of nowhere, 2 hours from the Randstad, which means you'll be mostly stuck there for a whole year...
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Wheretogo_
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 297
Why NOT to study LL.M in Commercial law at the Erasmus University
Fri Mar 29, 2013 08:17 PM
Groningen is just a possibility for me as I am still waiting to hear from them and also my first choice of Uni in the UK but from the website and the numerous testimonials it seems the LLM degree is very well organised so I am hopeful that it could be good :)
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