http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890 en Which is better: Cornell or Duke? - LLM GUIDE Discussion Board Sat, 04 Mar 2006 20:10:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#11890 I got accepted to Duke and Cornell, which do people think is better? Cornell is Ivy league but Duke have made a far better effort to get me to come which makes me feel they look after their LLM students than Cornell- am i way off? also, which is better for getting a job afterwards? any opinions would be appreciated- lastly where would people rank Columbia's program which the above? Sat, 04 Mar 2006 20:22:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#11895 what did they do to get you to come ? Sat, 04 Mar 2006 20:51:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#11898 they (duke) had a member of the alumni and a current student (from the LLM program) contact me and tell me about the college and the woman in charge personally emailed me and they were very helpful in the application process and they offered me a partial scholarship, while cornell sent a single letter saying get your money together- dealing with duke, even ignoring the scholarship offer, just left a far better taste in the mouth, while dealing with cornell left you feeling like another number- but this leads me to the point of my original post, despite the above, Cornell is Ivy league, so is their progam better and will i, after having completed the progam, stand a better chance of getting good employment so that i can start paying my debts? Sat, 04 Mar 2006 22:53:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#11907 Cornell is Ivy and is higher ranked, so I would say go for Cornell Sat, 04 Mar 2006 23:20:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#11909 If I were you and if you get a scholarship from Duke, I would go to Duke. Very few people doing an LLM at Cornell or other good law schools can find a job in the US afterwards, so if you get financial aid, that's better. However, if money is not a problem, go to Cornell which is more famous abroad... Sun, 05 Mar 2006 00:29:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#11910 Cornell, for sure. Unless the scholarship is for more than 20%. Sun, 05 Mar 2006 10:11:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#11928 Very few people doing an LLM at Cornell or other good law schools can find a job in the US afterwards Do you have statistics about the Cornell LLM students placement? Actually, from what I know, unless you come from a top 5 school you have trouble finding a job on the US market. After, it's a matter of how you sell your dual experience. Sun, 05 Mar 2006 10:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#11929 Cornell is Ivy and is higher ranked, so I would say go for Cornell Cornell is not higher ranked : 11th place, same as Duke. They're just listed in the alphabetical order :) But I agree : go for Cornell, it's Ivy. That's what I'm going to do too I think. Sun, 05 Mar 2006 15:40:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#11941 i had assumed the LLM was a stepping stone into the jobs market? while i want to do the LLM because i know i will enjoy studying for another year, money is very much an issue so i will need to get employment immediately upon finishing. with a foreign law and business degree, the new york bar (hopefully) and an LLM from Duke or Cornell, would one not have a good chance of getting a good job? re duke, I heard from someone who went there that the top new york firms visit at the beginning of the year and the LLM students can participate in this. Sun, 05 Mar 2006 19:26:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#11956 I have a friend who went to Cornell in 2001 and he told me that the experience was amazing and I have visited the campus and its truly extraordinary. The only thing that I did not like is that he told me that they do not grade you like the rest of the JD students but in a pass fail basis. That means that you won't have any grades to show to your american employer if that possibility rises up. In Duke they use the same grading method as the one used for JD students, I think between 2.0 and 4.3, and you can graduate with honors or high honors, that was implemented since 2005. Another important aspect regarding the bar exam is that at Duke you can take whatever first year course that you are interested in without any restrictions, that would be helpful if you are planning to take the NY Bar exam. I don't know if Cornelll has some restrictions so I cannot advise you about that. I am going to Duke this August. Tue, 07 Mar 2006 22:42:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12077 i want to seek a legal career in the US and someone mentioned that i'd need to get in a top 5 law school to get employment with a llm degree. here would be my questions, 1. which schools do you exactly mean by top five since it seems that the rankings vary from where your statistics come from. and 2. are there really no way to find employment with a llm degree even if your in a top 20 law school? please help Fri, 10 Mar 2006 01:37:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12280 Cornell has a very good alumni network and It s Ivy I would choose Cornell. It s also in NY state which is closer to the main job markets Fri, 10 Mar 2006 03:20:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12287 I would choose Cornell: reputation wise. Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:50:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12297 Hello, Don't do an LLM to work in the US afterwards, unless maybe you're from China or a very attractive market for the US firms. To get a permanent position in a law firm is extremely difficult, and to work for one year is not much easier. You'd rather do a JD then... This being said, your choice depends upon the subject you're interested in, sth that applicants tend to forget. If you like IP, go for Duke which is a very good school. Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:43:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12303 i know a guy from duke's llm program who is unemployed now. so i don't know. Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:44:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12304 by the way why is china an exception? Fri, 10 Mar 2006 11:38:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12320 Please do not expect much to get a job after an LLM program. Most of LLMs, even graduate with good grades and even have a good luck, are most likely to end up with just a short term internship. Very few could get jobs after the program and only for some reasons like having a good connection between their employers or some other specific reasons. And even they get jobs, they will take positions not as good as they used to dream of. JDs are far more preferable. Regarding choice of law school, I suggest that you choose the one that is more reputable in your home country or other countries that you would like to pursue you long term career. One more thing.. If you get offers from some other law school that have comparable reputation, I don't think Cornell is a good choice if you are a city guy and hate a small and real country city. Beside the long period of cold weather, you will find that this city has no place to go and no choice to eat. Ithaca is really a boring city. If you need more than a degree in the States, go to somewhere else. Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:04:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12321 Is it easier to get say a 1-year internship if you try in smaller cities that know your school and professors? A 1-year internship probably doesn't require a bar exam or green card... I never intended to get a long-term job, so I am hoping to get like a 1-year internship in the area of my school. Not NYC or anything. Nothing fancy. Then I probably wilL be homesick and go back to Norway to earn the big bucks. I guess time will show ;) Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:21:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12324 Tim, I beg to differ. Finding a position as a first-year associate is not just a matter of luck. It's about what you can bring to the firm. There are many alumni of my business school (#1 in my country) who have found a job in major law firms (US top 10) because of their dual education (law and business : very useful for an M&A department), their knowledge of different languages, their work experience (many LL.M. prefer people with at least a year of experience). After, it depends on the country you come from (UK, France, Germany, Italy, Israel) are recurrent when you look at the law firms websites ... Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:23:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12344 We don't earn big bucks in Europe ;-) Sat, 11 Mar 2006 22:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12462 I agree on the issue of experience and whether which country you come from. In general, lawyers from Europe have some advantage when compare to lawyers from other parts. However, I still confirm my point of view in general cases though. Nowadays, to get a permanent position in a US law firm is extremely difficult. Hiring is really based upon a case by case basis. Getting admitted to a top US law school may make us feel so pround and confident of our qualifications for a while. The real tough sittuation comes when we try so hard struggling to find a job after graduation. Even though a few of us would be happy in the end, most are end up with disappointment. In general, successfully getting a permanent position in top law firms in the US should be regarded as an exception rather than a general rule. Sun, 12 Mar 2006 03:10:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12466 Tim is absolutely right. Don't ever do an LLM to have a permanent position in the US afterwards. Unless you're part of the 2-3% who find one, you're bound to be disappointed (I was saying that China might be an exception because it's a huge emerging market which obviously interests US firms) Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:19:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12535 Amen. You are one of the few voices of reason on this board Sir. There needs to be a general reality check here people! Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:32:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12537 >>We don't earn big bucks in Europe ;-) Haha! Well, that may be the fact for a lot of the European countries, but Norway is a wealthy country. Though my beginning salary wont be too high (approx $50 000) because we have to work 2 years to get our license, it will increase rather rapidly if you work with business law. Another thing is that living costs is pretty high in Norway, so those big bucks will be spent rather rapidly too ;) Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:51:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12540 You fail to take into account the confiscatory tax rates in the nordic countries.. ALSO Compensation is highest in the USA/UK.. Face it, the USA/UK are the places to make big bucks, continental europe lags far behind.. Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:17:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12542 You fail to take into account all the benefits we get because of that tax. I have lived in the US and had to pay for a lot extra. And if you want to live in i.e. NYC, it is very expensive. Imagine, in Norway going to the university is free! Health care is almost free, 5 weeks of fully paid vacation, 9 months fully paid maternity leave... and the list goes on and on... At least we have the time to use our "big" bucks ;) I wouldn't mind working in the US for a couple of years, but not because of the money. Rather for personal reasons. Mon, 13 Mar 2006 13:28:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12543 I guess it's a tradeoff between money and lifestyle(Anglo/Nordic). But do You agree that it sucks to be a high income earner in the Nordic model? I mean because of the redistribution of wealth(socialism!), why not be a janitor? This is ofcourse an exaggeration, but You get my point;) Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:47:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12563 I am not socialist (at least in the Norweigan system), and I get your point. However, I do not agree with you. I feel like I absolutely get my tax money back, and not like I am spending it on those with lower incomes. It is not worthelss at all to get a highly paid job. Being a high earner plus getting all the benefits is great. I would not want to earn big bucks and then not have any vacation time to spend it on. And I know how much Americans work compared to Norwegians as my familiy is part American. I guess this is one big political disucussion, and it's hard to understand each other b/c we are grown up believing in different philosophies. But I still believe making like $70 000 after a couple of years is big bucks, even with pretty high taxes. At least more than enough to do basically whatever you want to. So I guess that is why I don't really feel the need to secure a hot-shot job in the US. Mon, 13 Mar 2006 21:03:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#12588 cheer! :-) Tue, 28 Mar 2006 03:01:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/11890/last#14431 As you mentioned, Duke is making utmost efforts, not only to attract strong candidate but also to make them happy and assist them in getting where they want. At the time, I had offers from 5 leading law school, but Duke was the only one that made me feel like they really wanted me to come, and when I arrived here I realized that they actually DID want me to come and were prepared to make the necessary efforts. In terms of jobs - I already have one good offer in NYC and more are hopefully forthcoming. Many of my coursemates have also done very well in their job search. Fell free to contact me if I can be of further assistance.