http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120 en Bar Exam - LLM GUIDE Discussion Board Sun, 09 Jan 2005 22:22:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#120 Does anyone know where you can take the Bar exam as a foreign laywers without having a JD? I know you can do it in New York and in California, but what about the other states? Sun, 09 Jan 2005 23:17:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#124 Hello Russ I also just know about the possibilities in New York and California but try this link for more info: http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/barexam.htm Amy Mon, 10 Jan 2005 01:00:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#125 Where do you plan to take the exam by the way? I have also been thinking about doing the bar exam sometime after the LLM year but I am not sure they accept people if they did the LLM outside the US? Know anything abouth that? Fri, 28 Jan 2005 17:56:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#542 The bar exam essay sections are different for each state, while the multi-state portion is the same. So, the passage rate for each state is much different. California and New York are known as "difficult" states to pass, but they also have many takers. If you are serious about taking a US bar exam, you should sign up for a bar review course in your choosen state. Most people use BAR/BRI, which is about a two month program. My guess is that it costs about $1500US now, but I am not sure. Good luck. Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:29:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#905 Russ, Barbri is definitely good preparation for the bar exam. The other serious (but smaller) possibility is Pieper... both will set you back about $2500 if I'm not mistaken. Time period of preparation is about 2.5 months, which is not so bad, and it's definitely feasible if you do the work (i.e. if you're a foreign lawyer it's not easy, but it's also not the horrific experience most other people will say it was). Without a US JD I would definitely recommend taking one of these courses, they'll make your preparation much easier than doing it on your own. Best, Oliver Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:25:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#1069 I heard that New York State Bar Examinations are every July and February. So If I fininsh my LLM in May, does that give me enough time and chances tp pass the July exam? Thanks. Sat, 26 Feb 2005 12:18:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#1225 Hi everyone, I just want to know how it is after you succeed in the bar exam???? In France, you pass an exam to enter in the "Bar school" for 2 yearsand after you are a lawyer, it is the same in the USA ?? Thx For the response .... Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:07:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#1960 Are there any nationality restrictions for passing the bar exam in NY? For example, in France, you have to be a EU-national or you have to justify of reciprocity with your country of origin. I never heard of such things in relation to American bar, but who knows, maybe, I missed smth. Thank you for your replies. Fri, 25 Mar 2005 11:02:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#2175 New York rules for the admission of attorneys and counselors at law (520.6 is about foreign law degrees): Source: http://www.nycourts.gov/ctapps/ 520.1 General (a) A person shall be admitted to practice law in the courts of the State of New York only by an order of the Appellate Division of the Supreme Court upon compliance with these rules. (b) Saving Clause. Those provisions of the rules of the Court of Appeals for the admission of attorneys and counselors at law that prescribe the qualifications for admission to the New York State bar examination, which were in effect at the time an applicant for admission commenced the study of law, to the extent that the application thereof was or would have been less restrictive or burdensome, shall determine the applicant's eligibility for admission to such examination. 520.2 Admission Upon Examination (a) Proof Required by the New York State Board of Law Examiners. An applicant for admission to the New York State bar examination shall furnish to the New York State Board of Law Examiners, in accordance with its rules, proof satisfactory to said board: (1) that applicant is over 21 years of age; (2) as to the date and place of birth; and (3) that applicant has complied with section 520.3, 520.4, 520.5 or 520.6 of this Part. 520.3 Study of Law in Law School (a) (1) General. Except as otherwise provided in paragraph (2) of this subdivision, an applicant may qualify to take the New York State bar examination by submitting to the New York State Board of Law Examiners satisfactory proof that applicant attended and was graduated with a first degree in law from a law school or law schools which at all times during the period of applicant's attendance was or were approved. (2) An applicant may qualify to take the New York State bar examination by submitting to the New York State Board of Law Examiners satisfactory proof that applicant attended and successfully completed the prescribed course of instruction required for a first degree in law, but the State Board of Law Examiners shall not certify the applicant for admission to the bar pursuant to section 520.7(a) of this Part until the applicant has presented a certificate showing that the applicant has been awarded a first degree in law. (b) Approved Law School Defined. An approved law school for purposes of these rules is one: (1) whose program and course of study meet the requirements of this section, as shown by the law school's bulletin or catalogue, which shall be filed annually with the Clerk of the Court of Appeals; and (2) which is approved by the American Bar Association. ... 520.6 Study of Law in Foreign Country; Required Legal Education (a) General. An applicant who has studied in a foreign country may qualify to take the New York State bar examination by submitting to the New York State Board of Law Examiners satisfactory proof of the legal education required by this section. (b) Legal Education. (1) The applicant shall show fulfillment of the educational requirements for admission to the practice of law in a country other than the United States by successful completion of a period of law study at least substantially equivalent in duration to that required, under subdivisions (d) and (e) of section 520.3 of this Part, in a law school or schools each of which, throughout the period of applicant's study therein, was recognized by the competent accrediting agency of the government of such other country, or of a political subdivision thereof, as qualified and approved; and (i) that such other country is one whose jurisprudence is based upon the principles of the English Common Law, and that the program and course of law study successfully completed by the applicant were the substantial equivalent of the legal education provided by an approved law school in the United States; or (ii) if applicant does not meet the durational equivalency requirements of subdivision (b)(1) of this section but has at least two years of substantively equivalent education, or if the applicant does not meet the substantive equivalency requirements of subdivision (b)(1) (i) of this section, that applicant has successfully completed a full-time or part-time program consisting of a minimum of 20 semester hours of credit, or the equivalent, in professional law subjects, which includes basic courses in American law, in an approved law school in the United States; or (2) The applicant shall show admission to practice law in a country other than the United States whose jurisprudence is based upon principles of English Common Law, where admission was based upon a program of study in a law school and/or law office recognized by the competent accrediting agency of the government of such other country and which is durationally equivalent yet substantively deficient under subdivision (b)(1)(i) of this section, and that such applicant has successfully completed a full-time or part-time program consisting of a minimum of 20 semester hours of credit, or the equivalent, in professional law subjects, which includes basic courses in American law, in an approved law school in the United States. (c) Proof Required. The applicant shall submit to the New York State Board of Law Examiners such proof of compliance with the provisions of this section as the board may require. Fri, 25 Mar 2005 11:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#2182 Dates of Bar Examinations/Application Deadlines: The bar examination is held twice a year, generally on the last Tuesday and Wednesday of July and February. Dates of the next scheduled bar examinations: FEBRUARY EXAM DATES JULY EXAM DATES February 24 - 25, 2004 July 27 - 28, 2004 February 22 - 23, 2005 July 26 - 27, 2005 February 21 - 22, 2006 July 25 - 26, 2006 February 27 - 28, 2007 July 24 - 25, 2007 Applications to take the bar examination must be postmarked no more than 120 days, nor less than 90 days prior to the examination for which application is being made. There is no provision for late filing except that for applicants who took the immediately preceding New York bar examination, the deadline for re-application is 21 days from the date of the applicant's failure notice, or 90 days prior to the examination, whichever is later. *** Cost and Payment of Required Fees: All fees payable to the Board must be in the form of a certified check or money order payable to: "State Board of Law Examiners." Fees are as follows: Examination $250 Certificate of Legal Education (Admission on Motion ONLY) $400 Copies of essay questions from three prior examinations with above average sample candidate answers $ 50 The following are available for 30 days following the release of the results of the exam: Copies of essay questions $ 15 Copies of above average sample candidate answers $ 15 Copies of failed applicant's own essay answers $ 40 *** http://www.nybarexam.org/frequent.htm Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:59:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#2195 This is what joi029 wrote in another thread: Please take notice that S. 520.3 and 520.6 requires a total of 3 years undergraduate experience both substantively and durationally. A 2-year LLB followed by a 1 year LLM would NOT suffice, however, a 3-year LLB does. I have a 3-year LLB from London and qualified (and passed) the NY BAR exam in Feb 04. Therefore, I can fully guarantee that a 3-year LLB is all you would need. Hope this helps. Tue, 05 Apr 2005 00:23:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#2710 hi i am new at all this. i am still in my first year of my law degree in england but am looking into sitting the bar in california. if i have read the stuff i found right then i can do the LLM in california and that will qualify me to sit the bar. and i dont heve to be a qualified lawyer in england. could someone tell me if i have read it right or am i completely wrong? thanks Tue, 05 Apr 2005 00:33:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#2711 yes you can write the NYbar exam after completing your LLB in england But i warn you its not easy you have to throw out most of the stuff you learnt in UK as the system here is very differen e.g.Conflict of laws is a big thing here. Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:58:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#3926 does anyone know do i have to qualify as a lawyer in england to sit the ny bar? i am doing a degree then want to do an llm course in ny but i dont want to qualify in england. also if i do the ny bar would i be able to sit the california bar afterwards and if so is there a certain time limit i must wait before i can do it? eg 5 years practicing law in ny or something like that. thanks for any help anyone can give me. Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:16:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#3930 You can take the CA or NY bar after your LLM. You don't need to qualify as an English attorney. I am not sure about a time limit (other than perhaps your F or J visa might run out), but I would presume that you can take the CA or NY anytime. I don't know if this applies to foreigners, but if you take both the CA and NY bar, as a domestic attorney, you will have to worry about MCLE credits- additional hours of training to maintain your bar license. For convenience and financial efficiency, you probably should sit for the bar that most helps your career. By the way, the CA bar exam is harder than the NY bar (although both are tough). Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:19:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#3931 hey, i know that once u do the LLM program u are allowed to sit the new york, NORTH CAROLINA, etc . there are a few states that allow this, less than ten i should think. the burden is on you to prove to them that your LLB is from an accepted legal system, ie commonwealth. there are a lot of things. check the American Bar Association or Jurists homepages. have u done an LLM. Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:21:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#3933 John Scott--As to your quesation about sitting for the CA bar after passing the NY bar, there is no short answer. CA is not a "reciprocity" state--meaning that no matter if you have already passed the bar in another state, you still must sit for the CA bar (i.e., no waiving in). If you have been practicing law in another US state (including NY), though, for 4 or more years, CA will allow you to take an Attorneys Exam. This means that you must take the essay portion and the practical/performance section of the bar. You will not have to take the multi-state exam again. Let me know if you have any additional questions, as I have already gone through this process. Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:49:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#3983 the original route i wanted to take was to go straight to california but people have been telling me that i have to qualify as a lawyer in england before i come over which is a route i dont want to take as it will take a further 3 years after my degree. i am waiting to hear from the california state bar to confirm what i have heard. but if anyone else could help? would a law degree from england and then do the llm from a california law school be enough to be eligible to sit the bar exam in california. Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:55:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#3999 I have a few friends with the UK LLB law degree and they took the NY bar exam and passed 1st time. They didn't do LLM nor the UK LPC or Bar Vocational Course. They are actually working in NYC right now. So, you're good to go! I believe it's also the same thing for California. By the way, do you have an LLB? I'm from the UK with LLB and I'm taking the NY Bar exam in July. Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:07:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#4009 Ok, I have browsed through the board and its topics, and I believe this one to be the most appropriate to the issue I am bringing at this time. I have seen your postings here, and have come to the conclusion that some of you harbor good knowledge regarding general information to the admissions to the bar exam in America. I took the opportunity to read 'section' (?) or paragraph 520.6 of the NY state bar regulation which points out the guidelines for foreigners to take the exam in NY. Nevertheless, I have not yet clearly understood the requirements set forth. Maybe you could help me understand it a little better. -What does a "first degree" in law - in the US - mean? -What is the "pro hac vice" procedure? I read it, but could not fully comprehend it. -Would Brazil be considered a country with principles set under the English Common Law? I know it is based on Roman Law, but what would "principles" be considered, in casu? I will be a licensed attorney with a bachelor in law from Brazil wishing to take the bar in America. I know that many from Brazil have taken the bar after completing the LLM courses in the states. However, what I do wonder is about the possibility of taking the exam without the LLM. It would be a situation solely based on a foreigner bachelor's degree + license to act as an attorney at my country of origin. Anyone? Sincerely, Tom (SP/SP) Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:08:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#4032 Hi, you would have to do an ABA approved LLM in the US. Roman Law is not Common Law for the purposes of qualifying. An LLB from Canada, UK, Australia and New Zealand would enable you to do the NY bar because they are common law jurisdictions. Hope that helps. Sat, 23 Apr 2005 23:30:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#4322 I have been reading the posts and am very interested in taking the NY State Bar. I am currently enrolled in a 2-yr 'Graduate' LLB - basically equivalent to a 3yr Ordinary LLB offered by the University of Edinburgh but I am worried this LLB isn't from a common law system. I'm not sure if it's the excessive pride displayed by the Scottish, but they always seem to point out that Scotland is a mixed legal system consisting of both common law and civil law elements. I haven't been able to find a concrete answer on which way it leans more - though I would think it's English common-law. Does anyone have an opinion on this? Will I be able to complete a 1-yr LLM in the states and be qualified for the NY Bar with my LLB degree from a UK institution, although it's from a university teaching 'Scots Law"? Mon, 25 Apr 2005 15:03:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#4384 Edinburgh is in the UK, a British university, therefore common law system. I reckon you would be able to take an LLM in the US. But I suggest you send all your NY bar exam materials in advance for evaluation by the board. They will get back to you, so do not worry. Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:01:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#4397 Right, what about graduate LLB-s from english universities. These programms are 2 years in a lenght, are there sufficient or not to take a bar examination? what about 2 y LLB+ 1 LLM? Tue, 10 May 2005 13:35:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#4964 Hey, I am going to be attending law school in september this year in the u.k. I also want to go straight to California and sit the Bar exam. I do not understand what is required and every1 seems to be doing the NY one. Do I need an LLM? Do I need my BVC? or would it be advantageous to have either of the two, or would it not make a difference? Tue, 17 May 2005 19:53:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#5388 To throw another spanner in the works, what happens if you do the LPC and complete a training contract in London and then want to head to the US? Thu, 19 May 2005 07:08:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#5528 LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 2, 2005--More than 300,000 lawyers and law students were each charged an estimated $1,000 extra for bar review courses, according to a complaint filed against BAR/BRI bar review and The West Publishing Corporation and Kaplan, Inc. in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California Case No. CV 053222R (NCx) in Los Angeles today. West Publishing Corp., dba BAR/BRI, and Kaplan are joined as defendants in a class action lawsuit accusing the two companies of illegally dividing the highly lucrative LSAT and bar exam test preparation businesses. According to the complaint, executives of BAR/BRI and Kaplan secretly agreed to a per se illegal market division. BAR/BRI agreed to close its Law School Aptitude Test (LSAT) preparation course from the market in which Kaplan was the dominant competitor. Kaplan, in turn, agreed not to enter the full-service bar review business, in which BAR/BRI was the dominant competitor. The two companies then entered into an agreement to work together "strategically" to enhance Kaplan's share of the LSAT market and to increase BAR/BRI's control of the bar review market. The complaint further alleges that at the time this agreement was entered into, Kaplan had entered into a letter of intent to acquire bar review materials and begin bar review courses across the country in competition with BAR/BRI. After Kaplan worked out its market division arrangement with BAR/BRI, it unilaterally terminated that agreement and abandoned all plans to compete against BAR/BRI. As a result, competition has been dramatically reduced, and law students and lawyers have overpaid substantially for their bar review courses ever since. The "name plaintiffs" Ryan Rodriguez and Reena B. Frailich are suing on behalf of about 300,000 law students and attorneys to recover damages of some $300 million, plus costs. Under federal antitrust law, any recovered damages are automatically trebled. Kaplan claims that it is the nation's largest test preparation company. It prepares students for virtually every standardized exam. However, it does not prepare candidates for the bar exam. BAR/BRI claims that it prepares more than 95 percent of all students sitting for the bar exam in any year. Representing the plaintiffs is the law firm of Van Etten Suzumoto & Becket LLP, of Santa Monica, Calif. The lead attorney is antitrust trial lawyer Eliot G. Disner. Wed, 08 Jun 2005 03:28:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#6076 Does anyone know if a Hong Kong 3-year LLB will allow me to sit in the NY Bar Exam? If not, what if I add an LLM in London? I know if I send my qualifications to the NY Exam Board early, they can decide whether to approve me, but if I can figure out the possibility of approval here, all the better. Thanks!!! Wed, 08 Jun 2005 08:56:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#6085 I found an interesting article about US LLM programs and bar exams. As it is in German, I will give you short summary in English: Many US universities see the LLM primarily as a means to make money with international students. This is why some law schools do not allow foreign students to take part in the difficult JD courses about American Law, but only offer LLM students the elective courses, which will not be relevant for taking the bar and practicing in the US. Some law schools will not allow LLM students to study Contracts, Torts, Constitutional Law, Criminal Law, Evidence, und Real Property. LLM students who want to take the bar after the LLM should look at whether they can take part in these courses before applying to an LLM programs in the US: Another important point is that some universities are ranked high for their JD, but substantially lower for their LLM program. http://www.recht.us/amrecht/2005/05/29 @ultimate berry: I am afraid I do not know about this... Wed, 08 Jun 2005 18:01:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#6092 It is true that most of US Law Schools are using the LLM program to make money. I was admited immediately in top 10 school with extremely high tuition and at the same time was on the waiting list and finnaly admited in top 30 school with 3 times lower tuition. It is not true that the LL.M doesn't allow you to take whatever class you want from the J.D. program. In fact there are no specifically designed classes for LL.M's except the mandatory class Introduction to US Law. Also all the Law Schools in particular geographic area normally have an agreement which allows students from neighbouring schools to take classes which their school doesn't offer. Aout the bar exam: My personal opinion is that the classes in the Law School are not designed to prepare you to pass the bar exam. You must take bar review course (two months and costs $ 2000 - 3000) or study by yourself using the bar review class books and following strictly their instructions. You can pass the bar exam only with bar review course without a Law School, but you can never pass the bar exam without bar review course or books. Then in the real life and legal practice the knowledge and skills from the Law School are valuable, not from the bar review course. You need the course only to pass the test. Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:20:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#6147 To answer many of the questions above. NY state requires a 3-year LLB from a common law jurisdiction to sit for the bar exam. Please note that a 2-year degree and 1 year LLM will NOT work. The LLB MUST be 3 full years. Thus, if you are interested for qualifying in NY do not take a 2 year LLB or you will be turned down - even if you have an LLM. Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:50:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#6401 Very informative board. Thanks all. Does anyone know where to find info about which countries come under common law system and which do not, for the purpose of taking NY bar. I am a LLB student from India ( a commonwealth country having British Common Law System ). It is a 3 year course. Would I be able to take NY Bar? Thanks. Fri, 29 Jul 2005 18:17:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#7005 Hello. I am not sure whether this question has already been specifically addressed in this board : can I sit for the NY bar exam if I take a LLM in another state (i.e. I am interested in a real estate LLM, which exists only in Chicago or in Miami). Thanks Thu, 11 Aug 2005 00:20:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#7244 It doesn't matter what subject area your degree is in-- as long as it is from an ABA accredited law school, you may sit the bar in most states. In California, you don't even need to be graduated from an accredited school. Sun, 28 Aug 2005 14:38:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#7439 Hello everyone, Could someone please tell me if it is possible to prepare for the NY Bar in England or Spain and when is the best time to apply for the February exam. Thank you very much. Ninette P.S. I have just completed my final year at a British Law school and I may be getting a 2:1, is that sufficient or do I need a 1st class degree? Sun, 06 Nov 2005 15:39:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#8412 Hello Russ I also just know about the possibilities in New York and California but try this link for more info: http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/barexam.htm Amy Wed, 14 Dec 2005 01:51:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#9043 Hi, I was in a LLM at University of Chicago last year and I just passed the NY bar! I am now selling the entire set of books for only $ 200 (plus shipping costs). I can also join my notes if you like ($50). I don't think it is necessary to pay over $2,000 for the Barbri classes. The books are more than enough!! You can contact me on my e-mail address at bbihr@uchicago.edu> Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:52:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#9107 I don't know how easy that is. I've never heard of big NY firms hiring British LLBs who just sit and pass the NY bar. Maybe if they have "exceptional" needed language skills. I've been in the US for 7 years now. Came to do an LLM after my LLB, and then transfered to the JD program, top tier school. Have passed two bar exams at first attempt and am also admitted as a solicitor in England. Am still looking for a well-paid legal job. I am working as a lawyer, but earning less than 30K at a small general practice in a rural area where I am one of three lawyers. But life's good here, better than it was in the UK, and I've had great experiences like being sole advocate on federal level jury trials and appeals. Something I could never have done in England. I have a few friends with the UK LLB law degree and they took the NY bar exam and passed 1st time. They didn't do LLM nor the UK LPC or Bar Vocational Course. They are actually working in NYC right now. So, you're good to go! I believe it's also the same thing for California. By the way, do you have an LLB? I'm from the UK with LLB and I'm taking the NY Bar exam in July. Sat, 17 Dec 2005 05:01:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#9116 Hi, you would have to do an ABA approved LLM in the US. Roman Law is not Common Law for the purposes of qualifying. An LLB from Canada, UK, Australia and New Zealand would enable you to do the NY bar because they are common law jurisdictions. Hope that helps. What about India Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:47:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#11468 HI I am doing LLB (University of Wales) , London and have plans to take NY bar examination afterwards. I would like to know few facts about UK law graduates in USA legal market and about Bar examination. 1. I will finish my LLB y 3 (exams in June and I think the result comes out by July) so I would like to know as NY bar exam took place 2 times a year in Feb and July, can I sit for July exam in the same year, the year in which I will take my LLB y 3 exams or I will have to wait for whole year to take NY bar examination? 2. If I pass NY bar examination after my LLB from UK and would like to join any firm in NY state, How things will be for me? How good the job opportunities for UK law graduates in NY --- or should I finsih my BVC and than come to US to practice law, any word of advise on this? I would really appreciate any comments on the said questions. Your's sincerely, M Waqar I - London Sat, 04 Mar 2006 22:34:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#11906 Hi, Does anybody know if it is possible to take the NY Bar and the California Bar with a UK LLM and a double professional qualification UK solicitor (QLTT) / French avocat? Is there a solution to avoid the UK LLB or the LLM in the US? I would appreciate your views on the subject. Thanks in advance. Sun, 05 Mar 2006 03:51:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#11920 NY and CAL do not require an LLM from an ABA approved school. The UK LLB will suffice. About half the states require such an LLM, and the other half require a full JD. Louisiana bars non US citizens/perm residents from admission, even those with JDs, though this is actually unconstitutional. But who wants to go there anyway? Good luck getting a job with a quality firm with just an LLB and LLM followed by bar exam, unless you are incredibly exceptional. A JD is the minimum for BigLaw. Plus, the US really hasn't cottoned on to this whole globalization thing, resulting in a dearth of opportunities for foreign law grads or lawyers. Best bet for average joes is to pass the bar, get a law license, form a small company, and work for yourself. Private paying criminal defense can pay upwards of 70K in big cities. The clients pay your company, and you file the paperwork via the company to get your work permit. Or, do independent contracting work for firms via your company. Mon, 06 Mar 2006 14:02:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#11979 Thank you for your views which are much appreciated. I agree that the main difficulty will be to find a job in the US after the bar is passed. However, I imagine that it is not even worth thinking working in the US as a lawyer without the bar exam...please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. However, some of my questions which remain unanswered were more focussed on the bar exam itself 1/ Would anyone know of a solution to take the NY bar if one is a qualified solicitor but without a LLB in the UK or a LLM in the US? 2/ Would anyone know what the 20 semester hours of credit mentionned in the NY Bar regulations stand for? Would it be possible to go to the US let's say for 2 weeks to catch up if you only hold a UK LLM (but no LLB) and a UK qualification (via the QLTT)? I did not quite catch the notions of "durationally equivalent yet substantively deficient" in 520.6...Could somebody explain it to me? 3/ Does anybody know if it is possible to follow distance learning programs/part time programs from London for JDs and/or LLBs which would open the gates to the NY Bar? I saw somewhere that these programs would not give credit to take the bar. Is it correct. If not would you recommend any? 4/ Last question a little further down the line: If the CA bar is open to foreign qualified lawyers without a LLB (i.e. even from civil law countries), is there an equivalence between the CA Bar and the NY Bar? Would it still be necessary to show a UK LLB or a US LLM to take the NY Bar once qualified in California? A big thanks to everybody who could assist me in that...and sorry for the lengthy list of questions. Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:54:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#13508 Would an ABA LLM make me eligible to take the NY Bar exam even if I am from a civil law country? Is the fact that I trained in France be considered substantially and temporarily deficient? I am doomed to never be able to take the NY Bar or will a US LLM cure that? Thank you for your views...I am desperate. Is it me or are the regulations unclear? What is an individual waiver and can it work? Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:35:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#13510 As I understand it, if you are from France, you need to have done an LLB or equivalent 3 year law degree in France (i.e. education equivalent in time), and then an LLM in ABA school to cure the deficiency of civil lawl education Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:00:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#13601 Thank you very much. This is much clearer now. Fri, 07 Apr 2006 10:14:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#15722 Very informative post indeed!! Thanks people!! Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:47:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#16701 I'm a foreign law student who just took the February NY bar exam. What's required is an LLB from a foreign jurisdiction. There are no cut-offs re honours...all that is required is that you have graduated from a law degree. As for when to apply for the February exam, the deadline is: No more than 120 days before the exam and no less than 90 days...so, your cut-off date tends to be late November. Barbri and Peiper both provide good bar review courses which provide for holistic preparation. Good luck to those who want to give it a shot. P.S. you do not have to be admitted in the foreign jurisdiction. You must simply have attained an LLB. Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:25:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#16703 Thanks Shree. That is encouraging. If you could share with us which country your LLB degree is from, that would be helpful to a lot of ppl on this board. Thanks gain and congrats on NY Bar. Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:05:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#16704 this is a very informative thread. im in a 4 yr LLB program in the Philippines. I know most of our laws are are patterned after the U.S. but i dont know if we adopt the Common law system. Cab an LLB from the Philippines qualify for the NY bar? please enlighten me. thanks Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:40:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#16710 I graduated from an Australian university in February 2006. (Haven't got my results yet, so, the congratulations must necessarily be on hold). Australia is a common law jurisdiction. For those looking to take the Feb. 2007 Bar worried about whether they qualify, you can have your qualifications assessed by the NY State Board of Law Examiners beforehand. Cheers Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:25:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#16721 Thanks Shree and good luck with the results. Tue, 18 Apr 2006 22:25:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#16734 Foreing Attorneys can only practice in 3 states- Illinois - u need some prior practice california- LLM ( 2 semesters in US common law) & Exam NY-idem for any other state u need a JD. With regards to the NY BAR (I am taking it) , it cost between $3,000 & $5,000, depending on how many courses you would like to take. The MPRE cost about $300, Barbri $ 2,800, MPRB $400, Essays practice $100, plus registration for the 2 exams. Also, allow some meney to go to Albany to take teh exam (travel&hotel expenses). If u are planning to work in NY for 1 year, YOU DO NOT NEED THE BAR, since u can work as a foreing attorney for most LAwfirms, and the LLM programme allows u to work in the states for 1 yr under the OPT scheme. Tue, 09 May 2006 21:41:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#17886 Have you heard of oher states that let you take Bar exam, after completing LLMs , besides NY and CA? I'm living in CT now, and was thinking of taking LLM program here and then passing bar here, but as I read here I can't, because I graduated law in Poland and I would have to take regular JD course to do it. Thanks for any help Tue, 23 May 2006 09:06:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#18352 Last december I happened to meet the University of Baltimore's director of the LLM program and he told me I could take the bar exam also in Washington D.C., he mentioned rule 42-b about that. I hope it's true, because I'm going to establish and work in that area after the LLM, is there anyone who can confirm that? Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:40:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#20593 Hi all can anyone tell me what are the chances. realistically, of obtaining a job upon copmleting the NY Bar? Also can anyone recommend any institutions in London for preparing for the exams? Fri, 18 Aug 2006 19:54:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#20692 Hey, I have a question: I have finished my BA in law with US law and Politics and am due to start my LLM here in England. With a British BA and LLM will I be able to sit the NY Bar? I was hoping to start Bar classes in Febuary and sit the Bar in July. Mon, 21 Aug 2006 22:33:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#20741 Hi all, I greatly appreciate all the resourceful information you have been sharing here. Here is a useful and updated link to the 2006 National Conference of Bar Examiners (NCBE) which outlines a comprehensive guide to the requirements for bar exams and which amongst the 50 states permit foreign graduates to sit for their bar exams, and if with any reservations or limitations. I hope it is helpful to you all intending, like myself, to sit one of the many state bars. www.ncbex.org/pubs/pdf/2004CompGuide.pdf I would also advise many should consider reciprocity of states before making choices on which states bar to sit, for it enhances your probability of practice and thus gves you a greater arena in the US legal job market. Wed, 13 Sep 2006 22:38:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#21138 Hey, I have a question: I have finished my BA in law with US law and Politics and am due to start my LLM here in England. With a British BA and LLM will I be able to sit the NY Bar? I was hoping to start Bar classes in Febuary and sit the Bar in July. Eligibility to sit the New York Bar Exam is decided by the Board of Law Examiners - www.nybarexam.org/foreign.htm. What is certain is those UK Students who have a LLB are eligible. This is because they have completed three years of legal studies (equiv to a JD). If you can prove you have the same with BA Law and LLM then I don't see why there would be a problem. Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:57:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#21215 Hi I am a UK law graduate, I have done my LLB and the LPC and worked as a paralegal for over two years. I have recently moved to one of the big US firms in London as a paralegal and I am thinking of doing the New York Bar, Alot fo my collegues have told me to do the mircomash course and not Barbri. Do any of you guys know micromash and do you think it is too late to start studying now if I want to take the exams in February or shoudl I wait till July. Also what are the Job prospects in the US for people with my background if and when I pass the NY Bar? Thansk so much in advance fro any advice you guys can offer. Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:45:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#21373 Hello there. I have not heard anything about Micromash (positive or negative). All I know is the big players for NY Bar Courses are Pieper Bar and BarBri. I did my exam with BarBri and failed. I re-did with Pieper Bar and passed. Hope this helps! Thu, 07 Dec 2006 18:33:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#22562 For the French lawyers: only a LLM is required, and you will be able to find a job in a top city firm if you are bilingual and have stellar grades from top universities. Several of my friends have done this and work on a permanent basis in top 5 NY firms Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:45:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#29173 Does anyone know where you can take the Bar exam as a foreign laywers without having a JD? I know you can do it in New York and in California, but what about the other states? Blatantly as an foreign lawyer ,one can also appear for Washington bar exam.Through law clerk programme or if the candidate has practice law in a common law jurisdiction for minimum of 3 years. Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:43:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#35693 Hi every one I got my LLB from Egypt and I'm planing to practice in the United states do I need to have LLM or where to start ? I live in the state of Virginia. Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:36:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#36354 Im completing a 2 year LLB under the University of London External programme and want to sit for the California Bar exams after the UK Bar. Is this possible? Tue, 06 Nov 2007 21:23:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#36454 Can anyone please help me out: As a German qualified Lawyer awarded my first law degree from Germany and a internal LLM from the University of London, am I eligible to sit the New York Bar Exam? After reading the "Rules" it appears that the requirements are to study a 20 credit program with at least 2 basic courses in American law, in an approved law school. My questions: 1. Is Queen Mary, University of London an ABA approved law school? 2. Is there a way to take the basic courses on American law, let's say in a summer course etc? Any help would be highly appreciated! Sun, 02 Dec 2007 18:25:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#37125 I heard that New York State Bar Examinations are every July and February. So If I fininsh my LLM in May, does that give me enough time and chances tp pass the July exam? Thanks. Theoretically yes. Bar Bri courses start in mid-May and end a couple of weeks before the bar exam. I say theoretically because you have to register for the bar exam long before that--generally if you're sitting the July exam you need to register by February; you may be able to register later, but it will cost more (late fees). And registration is a MAJOR undertaking--you need to fill out tons of forms, provide tons of information, etc. Also, many states require you to take the MPRE (ethics exam) in addition to, and BEFORE, the bar, and that is offered at different times (e.g. the November before the bar exam). So it's a somewhat complicated process that you must prepare for well in advance. Sun, 02 Dec 2007 18:26:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#37126 1. Is Queen Mary, University of London an ABA approved law school? No. The ABA only accredits law schools located in America. Here's a list: http://www.abanet.org/legaled/approvedlawschools/alpha.html Please understand that this is typical--I can't go pass the Paris bar or become a lawyer in Germany with my American law degree. Law is a region-specific discipline. I don't know what to suggest to you other than this: (1) contact the NY bar association to see if there is any way for you to sit their bar exam (for example, could you offer proof that you've already studied some American law, or could you study for a semester in an American law school?). (2) contact the California bar with your questions--California does not require you to have a degree from an ABA-accredited law school. So perhaps you could sit the bar there with your credentials. (3) or possibly, consider doing an LLM in an American law school located in whichever state you want to take the bar exam in. Thu, 01 May 2008 20:39:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#46706 I am a Chinese lawyer. I passed the bar in China without going to law school. Will that stop be from being able to sit in New York or California bar exam? Will they require us to submit transcript from law school? Your kind sharing is very much appreciated. Thank you so much! Thu, 01 May 2008 21:57:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#46710 Hi all, Thank you all for your suggestions in advance. I have a huge decision to make. I am a Chinese lawyer, I practiced Chinese law for 5 years. I don't have a law degree. Chinese government allows people with bachelor degree to take the bar exam. So I taught myself and passed it. I can be accepted in a ABA approved LLM program. but I am not sure at all after finishing a program I can take any bar exam. I checked, NY, Louisana all need equivalent evaluation. Yet, without LLM program, how can I get one equivalence evaluation? What if I finish my LLM, and I was determined not to qualified, then my time and money is going to be totally wasted. Please kindly advise. Thanks a lot! Fri, 06 Jun 2008 01:36:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#48064 Hi Everybody! I am a new member of you guys and would have a weird question because of it has been asked many times on this board. I got my J.D. from Turkey which is in Europe and using Roman law and now I am doing my LLM in US. In which states I can take the Bar Exam? Thanks Mon, 09 Jun 2008 08:05:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#48147 I just heard today from a friend and she said if you are LPR you can take the bar exam in any state.I will check with bars one by one. But do you guys have any idea for PERMANENT RESIDENTS? Your answers are highly appreciated.. Thanks.. Sat, 05 Jul 2008 05:03:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#48900 Has anyone successfully completed the UOL-External LLB and then taken the bar exam in NC after receiving an LLM from a ABA approved law school? I almost signed up for the LLB in 2005, but upon checking with the NC bar, I was told as of August 2005 only persons holding JD would be allowed to sit for bar exam. I just took a look at the 2008 comprehensive guide for bar admission (on abanet website) and chart X shows that a person holding a LLB from a foriegn law school can sit for the bar exam in NC after completing an LLM from an ABA approved school. Can anyone verify this? Thanks in advance. Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:08:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#49474 Hi, I want to take the bar exam in NY but the thing is i read New York rules for the admission of attorneys and counselors at law and especially 520.6 Study of Law in Foreign Country; Required Legal Education but i cant decide whether i can take the exam. I studied LLB(4years) in a country with civil law system then studied a full time LLM in UK whose jurisprudence is based upon the principles of the English Common Law so I cant be sure if that count? 520.6 (b) (1) (ii) basically says that " that applicant has successfully completed a full-time or part-time program consisting of a minimum of 20 semester hours of credit, or the equivalent, in professional law subjects, which includes basic courses in American law, in an approved law school in the United States;.." i would be grateful if anyone knowsanything about that!! Thanks.. Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:42:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#49514 Almila, since you took your LLM in a UK school and not in a US school, you would probably not be allowed to take the NY bar because 520.6 (b) (1) (ii) says that you should take courses in US law, "in an approved law school in the United States;.." and it was pointed out that the US only accredits schools inside the US. Sat, 02 Aug 2008 17:49:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#49630 Hi All, I have a question regarding eligibility to take the NY Bar exam, please can someone assist? Basically, I have completed 3-year JD with a university in Australia. I understand from the threads so far that graduates holding Australian LLBs/JDs are generally able to undertake the NY Bar exam without further study. However, for my case, I overloaded every semester, fast-tracked and completed my JD within 2 years. Thus, does this still affect my eligibility given that my 'in-residence' period is 2-years whilst my 'classroom hours' still stands at 3-years? I do also have a LLM from another Australian University. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this! Cheers Greg Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:40:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120/last#72374 This article will answer many of your questions: US Bar Exam FAQ, by Ilona Stanley http://www.llm-guide.com/article/407/us-bar-exam-faq