http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566 en Tax Law Rankings - LLM GUIDE Discussion Board Sun, 16 Apr 2006 04:27:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#16566 Does anyone have the complete Tax Law US News ranking? Sun, 16 Apr 2006 07:47:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#16573 I am not sure whether this is a complete list or not. However, this is what my professor gave me...He has a full access to US News. TAX LAW 1. NYU 2. University of Florida 3. Georgetown University 4. Northwestern University 5. Harvard University University of Miami 7. Boston University University of California of Los Angeles 9. Standford University University of San Diego Sun, 16 Apr 2006 07:54:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#16575 This is the complete list. I have a password. 1. New York University 2. University of Florida (Levin) 3. Georgetown University (DC) 4. Northwestern University (IL) 5. Harvard University (MA) University of Miami (FL) 7. Boston University University of California–Los Angeles 9. Stanford University (CA) University of San Diego 11. University of Virginia Yale University (CT) 13. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor University of Washington 15. University of Southern California (Gould) University of Texas–Austin 17. Southern Methodist University (TX) University of Chicago 19. Loyola Law School (CA) University of Denver (Sturm) Villanova University (PA) Sun, 16 Apr 2006 08:55:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#16576 Thank you very much counselors! Tue, 25 Apr 2006 11:04:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#17228 By chance could you also submit the complete list for international law as well? Thanks This is the complete list. I have a password. 1. New York University 2. University of Florida (Levin) 3. Georgetown University (DC) 4. Northwestern University (IL) 5. Harvard University (MA) University of Miami (FL) 7. Boston University University of California–Los Angeles 9. Stanford University (CA) University of San Diego 11. University of Virginia Yale University (CT) 13. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor University of Washington 15. University of Southern California (Gould) University of Texas–Austin 17. Southern Methodist University (TX) University of Chicago 19. Loyola Law School (CA) University of Denver (Sturm) Villanova University (PA) Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:32:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#17253 I wasn't aware that Harvard had a Tax LLM program. Anyone going to it? Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:29:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#17280 I do not think HLS has taxation program. Wed, 26 Apr 2006 02:25:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#17301 Apparantly they do - they're ranked #5. Was news to me. Anyone know if the program is new? Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:44:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#17310 Apparantly they do - they're ranked #5. Was news to me. Anyone know if the program is new? I found it. http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/tax/llm.php just wonder why it's called "LLM concentration in Taxation, not "LLM in taxation"? Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#17384 not sure about the distinction. Curious to know, however, how they climbed so quickly up in the ranks given that they haven't historically been known for their tax program. Perhaps just their general reputation precedes.... Thu, 08 Jun 2006 00:32:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#18926 not sure about the distinction. Curious to know, however, how they climbed so quickly up in the ranks given that they haven't historically been known for their tax program. Perhaps just their general reputation precedes.... Because it's Harvard. No way I would waste my time doing that LLM. Go to NYU, Florida, or GTown (and possibly Miami if you want to do international work AND you get a free ride). Thu, 08 Jun 2006 00:34:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#18927 By chance could you also submit the complete list for international law as well? Thanks This is the complete list. I have a password. 1. New York University 2. University of Florida (Levin) 3. Georgetown University (DC) 4. Northwestern University (IL) 5. Harvard University (MA) University of Miami (FL) 7. Boston University University of California–Los Angeles 9. Stanford University (CA) University of San Diego 11. University of Virginia Yale University (CT) 13. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor University of Washington 15. University of Southern California (Gould) University of Texas–Austin 17. Southern Methodist University (TX) University of Chicago 19. Loyola Law School (CA) University of Denver (Sturm) Villanova University (PA) These rankings are kind of misleading - Michigan only takes international students. There should really be a separate listing for the Tax LLM for U.S. J.D. students. Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:14:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#19772 I think you should note that the US News Rankings merely rank law schools that have tax programs. What you need to be looking at for LLM programs is a Graduate tax program ranking. http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/gtxrank.html Mon, 07 Aug 2006 18:35:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#20443 not sure about the distinction. Curious to know, however, how they climbed so quickly up in the ranks given that they haven't historically been known for their tax program. Perhaps just their general reputation precedes.... Because it's Harvard. No way I would waste my time doing that LLM. Go to NYU, Florida, or GTown (and possibly Miami if you want to do international work AND you get a free ride). What do you mean by getting a free ride at Miami if you do the LLM in taxation program? Sun, 13 Aug 2006 19:25:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#20575 What do you mean by getting a free ride at Miami if you do the LLM in taxation program? I mean that Miami's LLM wouldn't be worth doing unless it was FREE and you wanted to do international tax law. Sat, 25 Nov 2006 09:51:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#22276 Hi, I am new here and I would love to join you with the discussion. I am quite interested in the Tax Law program in University of San Diego, has anyone had information about it? Is it only open to JD students? Is there any Tax Law Program that are also open to foreign students besides Michigan? Thanks! Sat, 25 Nov 2006 15:17:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#22285 I guess all the LLM programs mentioned in this forum accept foreign students. Sat, 03 Feb 2007 03:18:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#24106 I am an international student and I already applied for LLM with concentration in Taxation at HLS; I can see that their program is ranked # 5 and obviously I think Florida and NU are more prestiged in the tax law field, but what about the overall reputation of Harvard? doesn`t this fact attract potential employers for international tax law positions? Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:12:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25094 I wasn't aware that Harvard had a Tax LLM program. Anyone going to it? Harvard does not have a tax LLM program, neither does UCLA, UCLA's LLM program is for international students only. My guess, is that these schools JD tax concentration is good enough to rank them highly even without getting an LLM from their school. Which makes sense because they are both top schools. Mon, 26 Feb 2007 21:27:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25097 The HLS LLM progam has a Tax concentration, albeit not a full-blown Tax LLM (although I'm not sure what the practical difference might be). Not as large as NYU's I would think, though. Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:16:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25126 I guess all the LLM programs mentioned in this forum accept foreign students. Do you mean the International students without a JD degree? Will such students be recognized among employers only with a Tax LLM degree but not a JD degree？Do not know whether I have to get a JD first or go directly for Tax... thank you very much for your help~ Tue, 27 Feb 2007 03:57:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25129 All the major Tax LLM (NYU, Florida, GU - just to mention the Top 3) programs in the US admit foreign-trained students that hold a JD/ LLB equivalent degree. Regarding the recognition of such degree among employers, I think a foreign-trained Tax LLM has a fair chance to find a job (e.g. Big4, Law firms) if a) he attended one of the top schools in this field; b) has excellent grades in his LLM; c) has prior work experience. Tue, 27 Feb 2007 04:19:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25130 All the major Tax LLM (NYU, Florida, GU - just to mention the Top 3) programs in the US admit foreign-trained students that hold a JD/ LLB equivalent degree. Regarding the recognition of such degree among employers, I think a foreign-trained Tax LLM has a fair chance to find a job (e.g. Big4, Law firms) if a) he attended one of the top schools in this field; b) has excellent grades in his LLM; c) has prior work experience. Thank you very much for your detailed answer~ Is there any qualification exams required for the Tax practice? Such as the Bar Exam etc? Tue, 27 Feb 2007 04:45:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25132 No. However, if you find a job in the US (either Law Firm or Big4), you will be advised to sit for the Bar Exam (probably the NY Bar Exam, as many States do not allow foreign-trained attorneys to sit for the Bar Exam) further to the completion of the LLM. Thu, 01 Mar 2007 21:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25433 New 2007 U.S. News Tax Rankings U.S. News again ranks the Top 20 (21 with ties). The Top 5 schools with graduate tax programs are the same as last year: * 1. NYU * 2. Florida * 3. Georgetown * 4. Northwestern * 5. Miami The 12 schools with graduate tax programs included in the rankings are the same as last year, with only slight variations in their places in the rankings: * 6. Boston University (#6 last year) * 7. San Diego (#6) * 8. University of Washington (#8) * 9. SMU (#10) * 10. Loyola-L.A. (#9) * 10. Denver (#10) * 10. Villanova (#10) http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2006/03/new_2007_us_new_1.html Fri, 02 Mar 2007 00:02:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25466 Hi Crash, where's Harvard? they were # 5 last year Fri, 02 Mar 2007 00:25:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25470 Harvard isn't there because those rankings took U.S. News' rankings and deleted out the schools that don't have LL.Ms in tax. If you go to the link where those "new" rankings came from, you'll see it was posted March 30, 2006. U.S. News will release their new 2008 rankings in about a month. Fri, 02 Mar 2007 00:40:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25471 Thanks Publius00! But what about Harvard's LLM with Concentration in Taxation, isn't this just as a LLM in tax?? or maybe not to good at all? Fri, 02 Mar 2007 00:45:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25472 I´ve heard they had courses that focused more in Tax Policy issues than in the analysis of the Code and Regs. If you a government officer (and intends to go back to your home country after the LLM), it could be good. Fri, 02 Mar 2007 00:57:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25474 Good point Ivan2006, here is the link that includes the curriculum (required and elective courses) for the LLM with Concentration in Taxation of HLS, it appears to be good but not to complete if I want to pursue a career in International Tax Services, what do you think? http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/tax/llm.php Fri, 02 Mar 2007 03:57:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25483 I would say that you should stick to the top 3 schools in the US: NYU (best in the US and great reputation overseas), Florida (great faculty but not so known overseas) or Georgetown (good program - although not as good as NYU or Florida -, and great reputation overseas). Since for international students reputation abroad is a sensitive matter, I would say that I would pick 1) NYU, 2) Georgetown, 3) Florida. By specializing in taxation at HLS, you will have the privilege of being a Harvard alumnus, but should also face the fact that you may not be as sharp in US tax as you could be if you attended any of the top 3 schools. Fri, 02 Mar 2007 16:24:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25548 I would say that you should stick to the top 3 schools in the US: NYU (best in the US and great reputation overseas), Florida (great faculty but not so known overseas) or Georgetown (good program - although not as good as NYU or Florida -, and great reputation overseas). Since for international students reputation abroad is a sensitive matter, I would say that I would pick 1) NYU, 2) Georgetown, 3) Florida. By specializing in taxation at HLS, you will have the privilege of being a Harvard alumnus, but should also face the fact that you may not be as sharp in US tax as you could be if you attended any of the top 3 schools. What do you mean that "reputation abroad is very sensitive"? For international to work in US or going back in there hometown? Fri, 02 Mar 2007 17:04:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25553 In the US, UF´s Tax LLM is quite prestigious - but overseas, it is not a well-known university. So you may find out that in interviews with non-US employers, you have to explain that UF is #2, etc. I will tell you a personal story: some years ago, I met a UF graduate in Europe. I did not know too much about the Tax LLMs in the US at that time, and when he told me that he studied at UF (adding immediately that it was #2 in the US), I remember I thought whether it was true or not... Now I would never think this way, as I know they have a great program. But the bottom-line is: in Europe or South America (just to mention regions I know better), maybe the tax practitioners that studied in the US know that UF has a fine LLM, but not everybody knows that. Fri, 02 Mar 2007 17:31:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25558 I totally agree with you Ivan2006, for instance, if I seek employment at any of the big 4 firms or at any top law firm with offices outside the US (which provide International Tax Services), they will definitely be familiar with UF's reputation in that field. In the US, UF´s Tax LLM is quite prestigious - but overseas, it is not a well-known university. So you may find out that in interviews with non-US employers, you have to explain that UF is #2, etc. I will tell you a personal story: some years ago, I met a UF graduate in Europe. I did not know too much about the Tax LLMs in the US at that time, and when he told me that he studied at UF (adding immediately that it was #2 in the US), I remember I thought whether it was true or not... Now I would never think this way, as I know they have a great program. But the bottom-line is: in Europe or South America (just to mention regions I know better), maybe the tax practitioners that studied in the US know that UF has a fine LLM, but not everybody knows that. Fri, 02 Mar 2007 18:52:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25581 anyone who knows anything about tax will know UF is great. If they dont, and all you are looking to do is say I have adegree from XYZ university, go to GT. However, an LLM from XYZ is not going to get you in the door of Biglaw just because it is XYZ. They look at undergrad law schools much more. Fri, 02 Mar 2007 18:58:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25583 My comment was addressed only to the situation where a foreign student is looking for a job abroad. As I said, i think UF has a great program - the only downside is that it is not that well-known overseas. Sun, 04 Mar 2007 09:10:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25698 Agree. I heard a UF ITP LLM got a job in one of the big 4 with pretty good compensation package. Ivan, do you know more about tax llm's prospective job market? What's the chance for BIGLAW and is Big 4 also a decent choice? Thx. Sun, 04 Mar 2007 17:05:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#25722 The big differences between a big 4 and big law firms are prestige and salary (let´s say that while big law firms in NY offer 160K a year, big 4 offers 90K; if you have prior experience and you negotiate well, you may raise this up to 100K). However, if you have no prior experience in taxation, Big 4 can be a great school (I began my career at a Big4 myself). And regarding the money, 90K is ok, you can live with that here in NY. So I think a Big4 is also a very good option. It is important to know that not everybody has a chance to receive offers big law firms: only the students with top grades will have a decent chance. Fri, 09 Mar 2007 17:43:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#26228 The big differences between a big 4 and big law firms are prestige and salary (let´s say that while big law firms in NY offer 160K a year, big 4 offers 90K; if you have prior experience and you negotiate well, you may raise this up to 100K). However, if you have no prior experience in taxation, Big 4 can be a great school (I began my career at a Big4 myself). And regarding the money, 90K is ok, you can live with that here in NY. So I think a Big4 is also a very good option. It is important to know that not everybody has a chance to receive offers big law firms: only the students with top grades will have a decent chance. Ivan, you are very imformative! You mentioned about the work experience in Taxation, do you specificly mean experience in Big Four in home countries? Will piror Big 4 taxation experience be a definite plus of getting in Big 4 again after LLM? Thanks! Sat, 10 Mar 2007 18:15:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#26318 The big differences between a big 4 and big law firms are prestige and salary (let´s say that while big law firms in NY offer 160K a year, big 4 offers 90K; if you have prior experience and you negotiate well, you may raise this up to 100K). However, if you have no prior experience in taxation, Big 4 can be a great school (I began my career at a Big4 myself). And regarding the money, 90K is ok, you can live with that here in NY. So I think a Big4 is also a very good option. It is important to know that not everybody has a chance to receive offers big law firms: only the students with top grades will have a decent chance. Ivan, you are very imformative! You mentioned about the work experience in Taxation, do you specificly mean experience in Big Four in home countries? Will piror Big 4 taxation experience be a definite plus of getting in Big 4 again after LLM? Thanks! Yes. If you have a background in Big4 in your home country, it would definitely be an advantage if you want to land a job at a Big4 here in the US. At the end of the day, you will know their culture and they will think you have the right fit there. If you come from a Big 4, you will know what I mean... On the other hand, the transition between Big 4 and a law firm could be more complicated. Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:57:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#26352 Yes. If you have a background in Big4 in your home country, it would definitely be an advantage if you want to land a job at a Big4 here in the US. At the end of the day, you will know their culture and they will think you have the right fit there. If you come from a Big 4, you will know what I mean... On the other hand, the transition between Big 4 and a law firm could be more complicated. I got it. As I know, quite a few people would go to the MBA program instead of LLM taxation after they work a few years in the Big 4. What will be the different between their graduates in terms of landing a job in the US after study? Will good employers like big 4 have preference between them? Thanks Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:06:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#26446 I got it. As I know, quite a few people would go to the MBA program instead of LLM taxation after they work a few years in the Big 4. What will be the different between their graduates in terms of landing a job in the US after study? Will good employers like big 4 have preference between them? Thanks Honestly, if I had invested 120K and 2 years of my life in an MBA, I would NEVER work at a Big4. Believe me, people who earn an MBA from a decent business school do not 1) want to work with taxation; 2) want to work at a Big4. These guys try to land jobs at investment banks or top consultancy firms (e.g. McKinsey, etc.). Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:01:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#26450 I got it. As I know, quite a few people would go to the MBA program instead of LLM taxation after they work a few years in the Big 4. What will be the different between their graduates in terms of landing a job in the US after study? Will good employers like big 4 have preference between them? Thanks Honestly, if I had invested 120K and 2 years of my life in an MBA, I would NEVER work at a Big4. Believe me, people who earn an MBA from a decent business school do not 1) want to work with taxation; 2) want to work at a Big4. These guys try to land jobs at investment banks or top consultancy firms (e.g. McKinsey, etc.). 120k?! Wow, I thought 100k would be more than enough... Well, would you indicate that taxation is not a decent job for most people? Is it too difficult or technical? Or boring as some people claimed? I personally think taxation is dedicate and fun, and it has a strong relationship with law, correct me if I am wrong. Thanks. Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:03:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#26463 Taxation is decent enough for me. But my point was: if a lawyer pursues an MBA, it is because he/she wants a career change - most of the times, they want jobs not related with law. If a lawyer wants to stick to tax law, he/ she will probably pursue an LLM, not an MBA. There may be exceptions, of course (in some countries, some lower-tier schools offer MBAs of various specialties), but I do not think that an MBA will do you any good if you want a career in tax. Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:23:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#26595 International Tax Law course in Leiden University in Netherlands is really great! Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:00:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#26619 Taxation is decent enough for me. But my point was: if a lawyer pursues an MBA, it is because he/she wants a career change - most of the times, they want jobs not related with law. If a lawyer wants to stick to tax law, he/ she will probably pursue an LLM, not an MBA. There may be exceptions, of course (in some countries, some lower-tier schools offer MBAs of various specialties), but I do not think that an MBA will do you any good if you want a career in tax. Thank you very much Ivan. Your information are very helpful to me. Since we have been talking about Big 4, which are surely decent on my point of view, I wonder will it be difficult to land a job outside of big 4? Where can students of LLM taxation most likely to work after graduation? And will those jobs be "miserable"? Thanks~ Tue, 13 Mar 2007 17:49:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#26627 Ok. Let´s build 3 different scenarios: a) you have big4 experience in your home country; b) you have law firm experience in your home country; c) you have no experience in your home country. If you are in a), you may land a job in a Big4 in the US after the LLM if your grades are decent (an average above B). You will only be able to land a job in a big law firm in the US if your grades are high (i.e. above B+). And if you want to return to your home country, you will be able to land jobs either in Big 4s and law firms. If you are in b), same applies - except that you may secure a temporary position in an American big law firm even if your grades are not top grades. At the end of the day, law firms here are interested in making contacts with lawyers from different jurisdictions to whom they can refer/ receive work in the futute. C)´s case is similar to a)´s, although in this case, decent grades are a must. In summary, where international Tax LLMs are likely to work after graduation depends on 1) grades; 2) background. But grades are essential. Thu, 15 Mar 2007 15:04:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#26835 Ok. Let´s build 3 different scenarios: a) you have big4 experience in your home country; b) you have law firm experience in your home country; c) you have no experience in your home country. If you are in a), you may land a job in a Big4 in the US after the LLM if your grades are decent (an average above B). You will only be able to land a job in a big law firm in the US if your grades are high (i.e. above B+). And if you want to return to your home country, you will be able to land jobs either in Big 4s and law firms. If you are in b), same applies - except that you may secure a temporary position in an American big law firm even if your grades are not top grades. At the end of the day, law firms here are interested in making contacts with lawyers from different jurisdictions to whom they can refer/ receive work in the futute. C)´s case is similar to a)´s, although in this case, decent grades are a must. In summary, where international Tax LLMs are likely to work after graduation depends on 1) grades; 2) background. But grades are essential. Thanks for your logical and detailed explaination~ I guess you are an alumni of NYU taxation law? I heard that prestigous LLM programs usually have bias upon international students, is that true? About how many international students were there in your class? Any scholarship available? If yes,what would be the most important criteria of an candidate? Many thanks:) Thu, 15 Mar 2007 17:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#26845 Q: I guess you are an alumni of NYU taxation law? A: Current student, NYU, LL.M. (International Tax). Q: I heard that prestigous LLM programs usually have bias upon international students, is that true? A: No. Q: About how many international students were there in your class? A: We were 28 in my program. But we had no special classes only for international students - in all of them there were GTPs and JDs. I would say that in a big class like International Tax I & II (70 students), 35 could have been foreigners. In other courses, like Partnership Tax (50 students), there were only 3 foreigners. Conclusion: it depends on the courses you take. Q: Any scholarship available? A: Yes. Apart from the general scholarships granted by NYU (read other threads and you will know which ones are offered), there is the Wallace scholarship for ITP candidates. Q: If yes,what would be the most important criteria of an candidate? A: No idea. Wed, 21 Mar 2007 08:03:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#27398 Ivan2006, I am currently a 2L at a top 50 law school. I am interested in an LLM in taxation, specifically from NYU. Can you tell me a little about the application process? Is admission ridiculously competitve? What must my law school grades look like? What is the application process? Thank you in advance. NCSUUNC Wed, 28 Mar 2007 08:10:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#28266 Q: I guess you are an alumni of NYU taxation law? A: Current student, NYU, LL.M. (International Tax). Q: I heard that prestigous LLM programs usually have bias upon international students, is that true? A: No. Q: About how many international students were there in your class? A: We were 28 in my program. But we had no special classes only for international students - in all of them there were GTPs and JDs. I would say that in a big class like International Tax I & II (70 students), 35 could have been foreigners. In other courses, like Partnership Tax (50 students), there were only 3 foreigners. Conclusion: it depends on the courses you take. Q: Any scholarship available? A: Yes. Apart from the general scholarships granted by NYU (read other threads and you will know which ones are offered), there is the Wallace scholarship for ITP candidates. Q: If yes,what would be the most important criteria of an candidate? A: No idea. Thank you very much Ivan! Glad to have you here to help us know more about the program～ Hope to see more information from you on the forum:) Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:11:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#28588 New 2008 U.S. News Tax Rankings The new 2008 U.S. News Law School Tax Rankings are out and available on-line here. U.S. News ranked the Top 25 this year (with ties); here are the Top 10: 1. NYU (#1 last year) 2. Florida (#2) 3. Georgetown (#3) 4. Northwestern (#4) 5. Harvard (#5) 6. Miami (#5) 7. UCLA (#7) 8. Boston University (#7) 9. Texas (#15) 10. San Diego (#9) 10. Virginia (#11) 10. Yale (#11) The biggest upward moves are: +6 Texas (#9) +3 Loyola-L.A. (#16) The biggest downward moves are: -6 USC (#21) -5 U. Washington (#18) -4 Stanford (#13) -2 Denver (#21) Last year, U.S. News ranked the Top 21 schools. Five schools that were unranked last year made this year's Top 25: Duke (#14), Penn (#18), Boston College (#21), Columbia (#21), and Florida State (#21). One school that was in last year's Top 21 dropped out of the rankings this year: Chicago (#17 last year) The 12 schools with graduate tax programs included in the rankings are the same as last year: 1. NYU (#1 last year) 2. Florida (#2) 3. Georgetown (#3) 4. Northwestern (#4) 5. Miami (#5) 6. Boston University (#6) 7. San Diego (#7) 8. Loyola-L.A. (#10) 9. SMU (#9) 10. U. Washington (#8) 11. Villanova (#10) 12. Denver (#10) Loyola-L.A. is the only graduate tax program to move up (+2) in the rankings; Denver (-2), University of Washington (-2), and Villanova (-1) all moved down. Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:05:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#28593 The new tax rankings are surprisingly anticlimactic. I was expecting something like UF and GLC trading places, along with some shifting below that. Really, there is nothing new (except for Loyola's small climb and UW's move down--which seem rather insignificant). Tue, 29 May 2007 00:51:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#32105 Im new here, and im thinking of doing the Taxation Program (LL.M) at the University of Miami, can someone tell me if its a good program and if i have good chances of finding a good job after the program? Sun, 26 Aug 2007 23:16:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#34803 I graduated from the LLM program at Miami and think that it is a great program. It's challenging and the faculty is incredibly well known. Yes, it doesnt have quite the reputation as NYU or Gtown but it is considered the best for International Tax. NYU's international tax LLM is for international students. Also, if you want to practice in Florida or the Southeast in general, it carries a lot of weight because the alumni in the area. Hope this helps! Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:38:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#34900 I have an LL.M. in Tax from NYU. Just add that I think Ivans comments were all quite accurate. The NYU LL.M. program (and the law school J.D. and in general) has been ranked #1 in tax (and top 6 law schools generally) for many decades. That is for good reason. Someone asked is admission competitive. Of course it is at the consistently #1 ranked program and being in NYC where many law firms and corporations readily aborb such graduates (I started with Wall Street firm out of NYU). However, if you are serious about it and have decent law school grades or special tax background or excelled in tax courses at a good law school in their J.D. program and/or have some good tax professor recommendors ... THEN GO FOR IT (apply). A good J.D. GPA is best way for acceptance, but some of those other factors might compensate some for a less than stellar GPA. There ARE EXCEPTIONS to the generalizations on GPA at most law schools if other factors make a candidate look attractive based on dedication, work or study background in the relevant area, strong/respected recommendations, etc. Anyone who can get in and afford NYU LL.M. and does not do so, if interested in tax law, really needs to sit and do some serious reflecting (to put it mildly). Concerning University of Florida Law School. It is a great law school and college (ranked Tier 1 law school) and its outstanding tax program dates back to at least the 1950's when the tax faculties at UF and NYU co-authored leading tax texts and moved between to two law schools to teach (Professors Friedland and Stevens and others). The smaller size of Gainesville (mentioned by someone) is irrelevant to the quality of that LL.M. degree, although NYC is better in terms of convience and connections to employment in N.E. USA. Between UF and U. of Miami ... U. of Miami has come a long way in recent decades and apparently they have a good LL.M. Tax program ... but clearly University of Florida is the one nipping at NYU's hills and consistently rated #2 for TAX LL.M for a long time. So if you don't go to NYU and can get in U.F. that would be an excellent choice, as would George Washington with its D.C. location. It should be noted that University of Florida is even offering a rare J.S.D. degree in Tax Law. That is a post-LL.M. doctorate of law. I don't know anything about that program but it does tend to show how far UF is in Tax Law Study. It was the first and only such program I heard of to offer further tax law study and degree BEYOND the LL.M. (Tax). Rob Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:11:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#34926 Thank Rob for your detailed information! Do you mind telling us whether you got your LLM degree right after graduation (JD?) or after several years of working experience in Tax? Besides, I notice that Harvard Tax Law program ranks five (which is also quite good) but few people comment on it. How is this program of this prestigous school, in terms of reputation and job placement? Does the fame of "Harvard" make it harder apply to than the No.1 NYU? Thank you very much for your sharing!! Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:55:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#34936 ANSWER: I went directly from JD graduation into LL.M. (tax) at NYU. I do not know it to be a fact but have heard that NYU (like many of the MBA programs now) has a preferance now for those with some experience coming back for the LL.M. in tax. That was not a factor when I attended. I don't know anything about the Harvard LL.M. in tax except that it did not exist until pretty recently, so its sort of an unknown quantity as far as their LL.M. (Tax) program goes. While Harvard is big name school, NYU ranks close behind as a J.D. law school and clearly way out in front for LL.M. in tax. Based upon that fact, I would assume that NYU would get more applications and be first choice for more lawyers wanting the LL.M. in Tax. I don't know how many Harvard admits to their program, perhaps its very small? Unless the Harvard program is very small, I would limagine the NYU Tax LL.M. admission would be harder to get (smaller % accepted). Again, I do not have actual facts and this is just my assumption. As far as jobs go, I would imagine Harvard LL.M. graduates do not have too much trouble getting jobs. However, when it comes to tax lawyers, I think most big firms and those in the know would prefer to get an NYU LL.M. Tax graduate from the long-time #1 tax law program in US. Rob Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:18:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#34939 Harvard LLM program is for those that want to teach law. Harvard doesnt have a tax llm program, rather it's a concentration and you have to write a thesis with faculty approval. The rankings yoiu are referring to are prestige of law schools in certain specialities at the JD level (e.g., dispute resolution, trial advocacy, etc.) There are also rankings specifically for tax programs which isnt hard to find on other posts here, or on the internet. Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:34:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#35184 i am a 2nd year eyeing the possibility of going after a llm in taxation. I already will have considerable debt from law school.... is there a list that shows the cost of attendance of llm schools? Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:46:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#35185 No idea, but i've heard UF is practically free Wed, 10 Oct 2007 22:15:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#35891 I decided to go for the UF LLM Taxation program, i`m a foreing lawyer... my question is... is it difficult to get in to the UF LLM program? Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:37:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#37554 Ivan, i've learned a lot from your answers in this thread. thank you very much. can you shed more light on the difference an LLM in taxation and an LLM in international tax? I don't have any prior tax background, and which speciality is more advantageous, in your view, to land a job in big US law firms? thanks for your input. Wed, 30 Jan 2008 03:44:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#39331 For Rob Attorney and Ivan, or those who know the answers, I am currently working on my JD (tier 3) and interested applying to the tax program at the top 3. I didn't do particularly well in my first year but I am receiving decent grades in my 2nd year and also in tax courses. It seems like people who went to NYU Tax LLM were already biglaw candidates before starting their LLM. 1) Do you know anyone who is not doing as well after NYU Tax LLM but with lower ranked JD? I want to know what happens to people with a lower ranked JD or didn't do well enough for biglaw but still somehow managed to get into NYU Tax LLM. 2) Well since there's no guarantee that I will get into NYU Tax, I'd like to know the answer to the same question (#1) for UF or GULC as well if you know. 3) If I want to have some working experience in tax after law school, what kind of work experiences would be good to have for applying tax llm, especially at NYU? I am concerned that not many employers will hire me to do any of their tax work right after JD, only having finished several tax courses in law school. What if I cannot find a position in tax law? 4) I'd like to know the career potentials and options as a tax lawyer (with LLM) at law firms and at corporations. Is switching between the two possible? What is the earning potential b/w the two and how are the working hours? Thank you so much! Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:28:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#40493 I have a few questions: 1. When you refer to Washington is that Seattle or St. Louis? 2. Is the list of the top 12 programs posted the only American schools that admit American students to tax llm programs? 3. As a B student at a tier 2 law school which LLM programs are likely out of my range as far as getting accepted? Tue, 19 Feb 2008 00:17:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#40521 I have a few questions: 1. When you refer to Washington is that Seattle or St. Louis? - It's University of Washington in Seattle. 2. Is the list of the top 12 programs posted the only American schools that admit American students to tax llm programs? - If you're referring to the list in this thread, yeah they are American schools but they admit international students too. 3. As a B student at a tier 2 law school which LLM programs are likely out of my range as far as getting accepted? - I am wondering about the same question. Some posters told me that you can still get into GULC or UF being a B student as long as you do really well in tax courses (maybe take around 3 tax courses) and get some tax experience such as internship or something. Tue, 19 Feb 2008 01:10:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#40527 I have a few questions: 1. When you refer to Washington is that Seattle or St. Louis? - It's University of Washington in Seattle. 2. Is the list of the top 12 programs posted the only American schools that admit American students to tax llm programs? - If you're referring to the list in this thread, yeah they are American schools but they admit international students too. 3. As a B student at a tier 2 law school which LLM programs are likely out of my range as far as getting accepted? - I am wondering about the same question. Some posters told me that you can still get into GULC or UF being a B student as long as you do really well in tax courses (maybe take around 3 tax courses) and get some tax experience such as internship or something. 1. Thank you for the clarification. 2. Are those 12 the only 12 programs out there or are there others? 3. I wonder if having an accounting degree and having passed the CPA exam will increase my chances of getting in to one of the top schools? Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:42:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#41023 3. I wonder if having an accounting degree and having passed the CPA exam will increase my chances of getting in to one of the top schools? I can only imagine it helps but to what extent I am not sure Sat, 01 Mar 2008 03:51:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#41429 Hi, I'm a tax llm student at NYU this year. 1. I don't think I understand your question. I think doing the program would only make you worse off after doing it as opposed to not doing it, if you wanted to practice in an unrelated area of law, say criminal law for example. I know people that wouldn't have been considered for biglaw before having done the program, that were offered jobs at biglaw afterwards. However, simply being hired doesn't necessairly mean you can make partner. I think a lower JD school may become an issue at some point, unless you're really good bringing in clients. Also, as an aside, the BigLaw market for new intl and M&A tax associates is doing poorly this year. Estate Planning generally requires 2-3 years work experience doing estate planning. 2. Didn't apply. Keep your hopes up. I know someone that got into NYU but not GULC. It's just about how well you market yourself and your capabilities in your personal statement and resume - and how much INTEREST you show in the program. 3. I didn't have tax work experience either. I had law clerk and judicial externship experiences. I, as well as other people I know, have employers that offered to pay our air travel expenses to interview us despite the lack of experience. Again, its how well you market yourself and communicate your thoughts. 4. I also interviewed at a few in house legal departments. If it's a large corporation, it may pay starting associates on par with say a Big Four Accounting firm in NYC. I wouldn't expect anything much higher than 115K for a tax department in house with no experience. If you move up to Senior VP & Ass. GC, you might be in the high 200s. No profit sharing potential, and mandatory retirement at 65. Remember you're just a corporate expense, if you go in house. For Rob Attorney and Ivan, or those who know the answers, I am currently working on my JD (tier 3) and interested applying to the tax program at the top 3. I didn't do particularly well in my first year but I am receiving decent grades in my 2nd year and also in tax courses. It seems like people who went to NYU Tax LLM were already biglaw candidates before starting their LLM. 1) Do you know anyone who is not doing as well after NYU Tax LLM but with lower ranked JD? I want to know what happens to people with a lower ranked JD or didn't do well enough for biglaw but still somehow managed to get into NYU Tax LLM. 2) Well since there's no guarantee that I will get into NYU Tax, I'd like to know the answer to the same question (#1) for UF or GULC as well if you know. 3) If I want to have some working experience in tax after law school, what kind of work experiences would be good to have for applying tax llm, especially at NYU? I am concerned that not many employers will hire me to do any of their tax work right after JD, only having finished several tax courses in law school. What if I cannot find a position in tax law? 4) I'd like to know the career potentials and options as a tax lawyer (with LLM) at law firms and at corporations. Is switching between the two possible? What is the earning potential b/w the two and how are the working hours? Thank you so much! Sun, 02 Mar 2008 16:36:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#41519 ABA Survey says median in house for no experience is $70K... but if you stay on it goes up to median in house for The GC / CLO is high 200s to low 300s, but up to 700K for the largest corps (>$10B revenue.) http://www.abajournal.com/weekly/top_in_house_lawyers_make_645k_survey_says Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:03:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#41578 Hi all, I´ve been admitted to the International Tax Programs at UF and at Michigan. I have not decided yet where to go in autumn (in fact I am very irresolute,....) What do you think about these programs? I´d be really grateful for any help. Thx Mon, 07 Apr 2008 21:17:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#45033 Law Specialty Rankings 2008: Tax Law Ranked in 2008 1 New York University New York, NY 2 University of Florida (Levin) Gainesville, FL 3 Georgetown University Washington, DC 4 Northwestern University Chicago, IL 5 University of California--Los Angeles Los Angeles, CA 6 Harvard University Cambridge, MA University of Miami Coral Gables, FL 8 Boston University Boston, MA 9 University of Virginia Charlottesville, VA 10 University of Michigan--Ann Arbor Ann Arbor, MI University of Texas--Austin Austin, TX Yale University New Haven, CT Sat, 12 Apr 2008 11:07:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#45433 Can someone help this Chartered Accountant (UK) who want to do Masters in Tax and come back to Europe/Asia and work for US employers or Work in USA. My background: I do not have a first degree, but I am a chartered accountant and a chartered tax advisor. I have 5+ years of tax experience. I presently work in house for a large pharmaceutical company. I have the following questions. 1. Is it possible to do an LLM in USA without a law degree but based on the chartered accountant qualification and tax experience? 2. If can only do a masters in taxation - where can I find ranking? Can someone guide me on which is the well known US MST program in Europe? 3. Any opinion about DU Graduate tax program? Many thanks UK CA Tue, 06 May 2008 02:19:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#46900 I was wondering which will be the best LL.M.s for a latin lawyer who wants to live in Caliornia and -find a job there -after finishing the LL.M.??? My GPA is 3.5 and I need a partical scholarship or loan.. Any toguhts on the matter? Tue, 06 May 2008 21:01:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#46941 I was wondering which will be the best LL.M.s for a latin lawyer who wants to live in Caliornia and -find a job there -after finishing the LL.M.??? My GPA is 3.5 and I need a partical scholarship or loan.. Any toguhts on the matter? Hello, sure you should try Berkley or UCLA, 3.5 gpa is not so strong for a top School but anyhow is all about your credentials 2 or 3 years of previous work after law school thats a fine school, good luck Tue, 06 May 2008 21:03:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#46942 I was wondering which will be the best LL.M.s for a latin lawyer who wants to live in Caliornia and -find a job there -after finishing the LL.M.??? My GPA is 3.5 and I need a partical scholarship or loan.. Any toguhts on the matter? Sorry I forgot, I dont think that you will have a good shoot about scholarships...sorry, and you should prepare to sit for the CA bar (pretty hard) how about your TOEFL at least 105...ps me Thu, 22 May 2008 05:52:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#47567 Rob or Ivan in particular - what are you guys doing/planning on doing with your LLM? And what were your credentials like getting into the NYU program? I've got a master's degree, CPA, and JD from top 30 program with a bar admission 3 years ago, but I never practiced law. I'm working in tax compliance for a big 4 firm now, but I think I'd really like to get into a law firm doing a little more tax controversy work, or maybe a good job at the IRS. I feel like I've got a pretty good resume, but a bad 1L year when I was 19 years old really dragged down my law school GPA. Tried to make up for it with law journal and moot court, but I digress... Any advice on the career shift or admissions prospects at one of the top 3 LLMs? Thanks for all the good info you guys have already posted here. Sun, 07 Sep 2008 00:26:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#50399 I practice probate law in a busy, small firm in Arizona. I am considering obtaining an LLM (with a focus in estate and gift tax). I cannot stop practicing. My options for LLM programs may be limited to the distance learning programs at Alabama and NYU. But there is a possibility that I could commute to USD, Loyola or Chapman. I'd appreciate any thoughts on these options. Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:37:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/16566/last#50904 Hi there, I'm a lawyer in Argentina, 25 years old with 4 years background in tax law, working for the biggest law firm here. I'm planning to apply for Tax on LLM in NYU, UF, GT, BU or UM. I think that I have chances of being accepted (I've graduated from my university among the top 5% -#154 out of 3,000), but I would like to receive some thoughts regarding: (i) best law school that will assure more chances of getting a job offer in the USA after graduating -despite the fact of the current financial and recession situation- (ii) more possibilities of getting scholarships. Thanks a lot in advanced!