http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054 en LL.M in new york? - LLM GUIDE Discussion Board Sun, 10 Sep 2006 00:17:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21054 hello! I will finish law in october 2007 in Switzerland and I would like to do a LL.M in NYC. Does anyone know a good University? I have more or less good marks but not fantastic... So I think, it won't be possible to be admitt in a very goog University. Does anybody know a University who accept also "normal" student? Thank you, Flora Sun, 10 Sep 2006 02:42:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21056 If you grades and credentials are not so good, NYU will be perfect for you. More than 450 students are currently enrolled in their LLM Program !!! (you can check this information on their website). Of course, this means that they admit every year much more students since most of the people admitted to Yale, Stanford, Harvard, Columbia and some applicants admitted to other law schools like Chicago turn down their offer. So, I think this is a very good option: NYU is not at all selective for its LLM Program but due to a very large alumni network, some people still believe this is a very prestigious LLM !!! Another good reason to go to NYU : you will probably be able to study with more than 20 people from your own country if you are from China, Japan, Germany, France, Italy, etc… Last but not least, NYU loves LLM students : they account for a very significant part of the (financial) resources of this Law School! Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:30:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21098 I completely agree with you anna. My advice: Avoid NYU. It is not a law school. It's a supermarket (at least for the LLM students). Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:04:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21103 My advice is to apply to all of them: Columbia, NYU, Fordham, Cardozo, Pace, NYLS, Brooklyn, etc. Wed, 13 Sep 2006 03:20:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21112 Well...I used to study in much smaller LLM program and current year I attend NYU...so , from my experience, I may be able to tell you something... The only bad thing NYU has in my opinion is the size of the LLM program...450 students make it is difficult for students to know each other. As to the fact that there are too many students, the school could not provide activities that would help students create relationship among students. ex most of the orientations were listening to the professors or NYU staffs explaining about NYU system and life at NYU. We just listened and listened and then went home. Class like introduction to US law may help some students feeling better, but when the semester really begins.....students just scatter into some of class rooms...(also due to the fact that NYU provides hundred of classes) . After class, everybody just goes somewhere or library. So the NYU students may stay only in a small group ( 2-3), but I have no idea of going out together, partying or doing something in big group. Comparing to my old school which has only 80 general LLM students and 40 Tax LLM students --> we mostly know everybody in the program. The orientation provided various activities like games or sports....The activities along the semesters also were pretty good in gathering students together and making us enjoying the school life...its pretty much better than NYU in my opinion in terms of student relationships. However, I can tell that 4 professors I study with in this semester at NYU are all good. The LLM students are more active in classes than that I found in my old school where there were mostly JD students trying to ask questions. Additionally, the organization system in NYU is pretty good...if you want anything, you just go to some division, and they will try to help you...or even sometimes they did things I wanted before I had to tell them to do that for me. Comparing to my old school, I have to ask and ask and ask many many times, to get what I want. Or sometimes, I met the situation where some staff at the Int'l Office of my old school said to me that " you are not in my responsibility. You need to talk to xxx office" . ( I was in the tax program and the int'l office there said that they did not take care of any international students who are not in the General LLM --> strange!) So for the educational and organization system, I can say that NYU wins! , but not about student relationship. Sat, 16 Sep 2006 09:34:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21176 450 LLM students at NYU each year?????? Is it true? I can't believe it! Mon, 18 Sep 2006 01:38:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21209 It is true. However, it should be borne in mind that not of them are all international students - for instance, almost all of the students that are enrolled in the General Tax Program are US students. Although the number sounds exagerated, I guess it all depends on your specialization: I am enrolled in the International Tax program and I have 27 colleagues. We all know each other and we get along very well. And I don´t have the impression (like one of the guys who submitted a post in this forum) that I am in a supermarket: on the contrary, I and glad to have colleagues specialized in my field of study that come from countries like Japan, China, Russia, Costa Rica, Brazil, India, Spain, Mexico, Belgium, Canada, Venezuela, Peru, France. Israel, Korea and Germany. It´s all about networking - and if I have some cross-border deal in the future, I will know who to call. Mon, 18 Sep 2006 07:39:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21210 Ivan2006 I feel a little bit different from you...it's probably because I am part of a few international students of the TTP. Additionally, it is pretty difficult to me to really have "friends" where students mostly stay in their national group, and what I can do is only saying "hello" and "how are you doing? to them. last week, I had a chance to really talk with one student from Mexico (dont know TTP or ITP), he said " this is the first time, I really talk to somebody"....he said " I dont know whom to talk with. We have a chance to talk probably because we sit next to each other in class. Out of class, I have no idea about other people"....Yeh! You think like me!! Anyway, I still insist that legal education at NYU is very impressive to me, so far. The amount of students does not cause any problem with teaching or studying. Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:51:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21230 Hi Mint - are you enrolled in the GTP? Actually, I understand pretty well what you´re saying: among GTPs, competition is fierce, and the guys are not much in the mood of making friends... Perhaps it´s because most of them are American students that received their JDs, and the guys have a lot of debt to repay... Are you taking Steines´ class? If so, we ITPs are mostly in the right side of the class. C´mon by, and I´ll introduce you to the guys! Btw, I guess I know who your Mexican colleague is - very nice guy indeed. Tue, 19 Sep 2006 05:17:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21238 450 LLM students at NYU each year?????? Is it true? I can't believe it! Yeh...we're 300 international students and 150 american... (way too big for my taste) Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:12:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21276 Columbia is very good - two friends of mine went there and rated it very highly. Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:23:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21278 Yes. You're right. Columbia is much more selective than NYU for its LLM Program. By the way, do you know why NYU accept so many people? I think it's a real problem. I am considering applying for an LLM Program in the US next year but all my friends tell me not to apply to NYU for this reason... As a result, I will probably only apply to Columbia. 450 is simply too much. Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:16:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21280 I am currently at NYU pursuing an LLM in International Legal Studies. I had been admitted to universities that were "more selective" than NYU and still chose to come here. I wouldn't discount schools based merely on their selectivity - indeed this may be a factor that would militate in favour of applying to certain schools. Most relevant is the quality of education at a school. If you look at the US News and World Report Survey, you will note that (aside from admitting a lot of LLMs) NYU admits the highest percentage of JD applicants out of the top ten - this has not hindered the quality of education, nor the reputation of the school. Indeed, there are many highly qualified people that attend NYU, and many highly qualified faculty. I chose NYU because I think it has the best International Law faculty in the world. Being here, and having taken some classes with these professors reinforces this view. If you are concerned with knowing everyone in your class, then I would ask how important that consideration really is. No matter where you go, there are only a certain number of individuals that one can actually get to know in a year. You are bound to make some close friends, and many acquaintances no matter where you end up. The number of each will likely be the same regardless of how many students there are at your school. If anyone has any questions on the actual merits of the programs here at NYU, I would be happy to answer those questions - especially since I find those queries much more relevant to deciding where to attend. Good luck with applications! Fri, 22 Sep 2006 06:00:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21282 Agree with Rah. And I would like to add something: if you´re accepted into any of the top US universities (the US News ranking is the most cited reference), you cannot go wrong. Having that said, you should think about where to find the best in your field of study: perhaps you´ll find the best professors in Corporate Law at Columbia, the best in taxation and international studies at NYU, the best in IP at Stanford, and the best in Law and Economy at the University of Chicago, and great, great professors at several universities - Yale, Harvard, Georgetown, Michigan, etc. For instance, if your field is taxation, if you study at Columbia you will have no advantage over an NYU tax student vis-à-vis the US legal market. In addition to that, size is nice, but suppose you´re the only LLM student specializing in e.g. constitutional law in an university that has a small LLM program like, let´s say, UChicago. Sincerely, I don´t think you´re know more people if you have no other LLM attending the same classes... Of course, I could be wrong. Conclusion: size is relative. Focus on the faculty. Then think of other factors that influence your decision, like brand prestige, career plans or location. Sat, 23 Sep 2006 22:07:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21307 Newbie here...Canadian trying to decide on an educational path. In 3rd year of UG program with a GPA of 4.2/4.3. Writing LSAT in a week, today PT # 44 got a 177, and have an average over last 5 tests of 176. I love the look of the IILJ @ NYU and am trying to decide between applying for a Canadian LLB program (and possible full scholarship) followed by an LLM at the NYU or applying to NYU for the JD/LLM, with a much lower expectation of scholarship $$. Do most people go immediately to the LLM programs prior to articling and writing for the bar, or article/bar then LLM? After the LLM, is it "easier" to get a good article? In Canada, I can apply for LS after only a few years of UG, and I'm considering doing that route, followed by LLM. It would take the same number of years as finishing UG, then JD in US. Any advice would be graetly appreciated. Thanks Sun, 24 Sep 2006 02:14:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21310 Although the quality of the legal education at NYU is great, I can't help thinking that NYU is some kind of a "supermarket" as someone else stated above. Too many students, so you have little contact with the rest of the class, not to mention that the sheer number of students makes it difficult for professors to remember you (you're just one out of 400+ students) so it is difficult for them to recommend you to anybody as they can't remember you ! And let's not forget that quantity has an impact on value of things : something rare has value, and something available in abundance has little value. As there are over 400 students with the same degree from the same university applying for the same jobs, it becomes very difficult for foreigners to get a job in the US ! There are simply too many people with similar credentials competing for the same jobs ! On the other hand, law schools which are far more selective have better job placements for LLMs because they are not churning out studentd by the hundreds. I know people who turned down offers from NYU and were glad of their decision - they managed to get a job in the US after going to a more selective school (Harvard, Columbia, Penn, Chicago, etc. and even lower ranked schools like Fordham) whereas their classmates who had better grades and had more work experience failed to land a job in the US because of the above reasons ! Sun, 24 Sep 2006 03:33:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21314 NYU is an amazing school. Prestige is prestige and NYU has tons of it. That said, if you are the type of person who would feel lost in such a big city or want a small school, it is perfectly reasonable to decide to go elsewhere. Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:37:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#21331 I disagree that you can't get to know your professors. Just as there are a lot of students here, there are more faculty than most other schools, so the ratio of students to faculty is not that different from most schools. One thing to keep in mind is that there are many different LLMs at NYU. For example, I'm doing the LLM in International Legal Studies and there are only 75 of us in that program. I already know many of the students in the program. All of us doing an LLM at NYU aren't seeking attention from the same faculty members - rather, just of the faculty that cater to our specialized areas. My largest class is 50 students and my smallest is 15 students. Most of my professors know me by name already. On the job side of things. I can't think of a more marketable LLM in the world than the NYU Tax LLM - I think they all get amazing jobs. I bet that the rest of us have an equal shot as those at other top schools at getting jobs. Firms, NGOs etc. look at the whole package - not just where you did your LLM. As a matter of fact, I would say that what you did before your LLM is often more important than the school you attend for your LLM. Again, if you go to any good school, with good professors and a decent reputation, you have just as a good a shot at getting the good jobs as anyone else. I have had a couple interviews with management consulting firms and there were law students (JDs and LLMs) there from all of the top 10 schools. There is little discrimination between the top tier schools. Of course, I agree with Denny though - a big school and/or big city is not for everyone. CNB, I did UG in 3 years in Canada, did law school in Canada then came down here. If I were to do things over, I would have come here for my JD as well. If I were you I would look into Osgoode's JD/LLB combined degree with NYU. I would also apply to the JD/LLM program at NYU - some really bright people in that program. Let me know if you have any specific questions. Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:37:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#24977 hi ...i have been reading d above stated discussions...well i need some advice...i am from india i compleated my law school here in india in 2002 and now m planing to do an llm from new york i have almost 4 and a half years of practical experiance as a litigation lawyer..what are my cahnces if i apply for llm @ nyu fordham hofta.. coz they are the only ones left..deadlines for the other schools ahve already expired...another thing i want 2 know is what are the job prospects in the US after i complete my llm from new york from one of the schools mentioned above and do i need to give the new york bar exam to get any job i mean is it mandatory to be admitted to the bar if u want to do a job in the US after doing an llm any suggessions would be welcome my email is devansahni@gmail.com Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:39:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#24990 I've always thought that complaints about the size of an LLM class can become immature. Consider that many people want to work in big New York law firms whose New York offices have hundreds of lawyers. Consider too that any law school will have far more JD students than LLMs, and one would want to meet them as well. Meeting people, as with many other things in an LLM program, can be a function of the effort you put into it. Of course, I said they can be. Some people are more comfortable and more disposed towards a smaller group and its intrinsic advantages. Mon, 26 Feb 2007 01:17:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#25022 hello! I will finish law in october 2007 in Switzerland and I would like to do a LL.M in NYC. Does anyone know a good University? I have more or less good marks but not fantastic... So I think, it won't be possible to be admitt in a very goog University. Does anybody know a University who accept also "normal" student? Thank you, Flora What university are you from? :p Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:55:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#25114 and if I have some cross-border deal in the future, I will know who to call. An allied law firm? :p Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:14:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#29177 i am a strong beleiver that you should opt for a law college according to your academic results,if u re not that high ranker or posses academic results then there is no employ of joining a highly fecilated university.A easy going student will blatantly feel subtle in a cluster of intellectual law students.This will for sure hampen his/her mental growth as well.Its better to stick with a college where u will hit upon analogous students. U have to lose somethin to acheive many stuff. Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:20:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#29179 hi ...i have been reading d above stated discussions...well i need some advice...i am from india i compleated my law school here in india in 2002 and now m planing to do an llm from new york i have almost 4 and a half years of practical experiance as a litigation lawyer..what are my cahnces if i apply for llm @ nyu fordham hofta.. coz they are the only ones left..deadlines for the other schools ahve already expired...another thing i want 2 know is what are the job prospects in the US after i complete my llm from new york from one of the schools mentioned above and do i need to give the new york bar exam to get any job i mean is it mandatory to be admitted to the bar if u want to do a job in the US after doing an llm any suggessions would be welcome my email is devansahni@gmail.com hey man...if u have a experience of practice in a jurisdiction which is based on common law(india blatantly does).u can directly appear for the washington bar exam. only new york,washington & california allow for foreign students. if u have spent so much of time in practice then why u want to opt for LLM.After llm also u have to pass the state bar exam. Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:22:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#29180 I've always thought that complaints about the size of an LLM class can become immature. Consider that many people want to work in big New York law firms whose New York offices have hundreds of lawyers. Consider too that any law school will have far more JD students than LLMs, and one would want to meet them as well. I don't really follow the point here. All I can say is that despite being in a firm of 400+ people I have almost zero people contact. All goes via email and I can go for days without speaking to anyone but my secretary least of all a JD (who, btw, are often extremely competitive/cliquey/overworked to want to make small talk). Which is why I loiter around this forum... Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:37:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#29182 I've always thought that complaints about the size of an LLM class can become immature. Consider that many people want to work in big New York law firms whose New York offices have hundreds of lawyers. Consider too that any law school will have far more JD students than LLMs, and one would want to meet them as well. I don't really follow the point here. All I can say is that despite being in a firm of 400+ people I have almost zero people contact. All goes via email and I can go for days without speaking to anyone but my secretary least of all a JD (who, btw, are often extremely competitive/cliquey/overworked to want to make small talk). Which is why I loiter around this forum... i am a strong contender that study of law is unfeasible in a huge group of 400 students,but what if there is not much alternative .high ranked universities wont prefer to choose such students. more over it depends on ure hard work then anything else . Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:42:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#29183 I am a bit confused (probably because I haven't been bothered to read this entire thread - sorry) but the actual lectures aren't 400 people even if they take that many. CLS takes around 200 students but I took mainly seminars where there were only around 15 people there. It was a perfect size. Large enough to get a diversity of opinions but small enough to hear from everybody. Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:47:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#29184 I am a bit confused (probably because I haven't been bothered to read this entire thread - sorry) but the actual lectures aren't 400 people even if they take that many. CLS takes around 200 students but I took mainly seminars where there were only around 15 people there. It was a perfect size. Large enough to get a diversity of opinions but small enough to hear from everybody. From my infernce of the whole issue there are around 200 students attending a SEMINAR .... admitting 450 students for a single LLM BATCH is too much. where re from u doing ure LLM... Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:31:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#34483 i did my law degree from india in 1988 and i started practising on civil and criminal side in punjab (Northern India). now i want to do LLM...My medium of instruction during the law College was english........ what r the requirements for Admission in LLM and when the sessions starts.........plz inform me thanks........ PARTAP SINGH Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:50:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#34493 That all depends on what school you want to go to. Why not go to the website of the university and look up the requirements, it isnt very hard and shouldn't take very long. Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:16:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#34508 guys im rly interested in pursuing an llm from NYU... however my problem is that i have a lower second class honours in my LLB(i hope someone here is from the uk or understands the degree classification to understand my grades), i have also done my bar vocational course and i am a barrister as well... what i would like to know is that what are my chances of being admitted into the llm programme at nyu... Thu, 16 Aug 2007 20:11:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#34537 HI I m also from India and have similar quesitons as you have. Did u find answers to any of your questions ? I have completed part I of LLM in corporate law from India. I also have two years experience working as a lawyer for a consumer welfare NGO. Now I wish to pursue LLM in NY. But I have similar doubts like you. If you are able to obtain any information about the LLM program in NY in any of the colleges like NYU, Columbia, FOrdham, Cardozo, Cornell, Touro etc....would you mind sharing it with me ? Thanks hi ...i have been reading d above stated discussions...well i need some advice...i am from india i compleated my law school here in india in 2002 and now m planing to do an llm from new york i have almost 4 and a half years of practical experiance as a litigation lawyer..what are my cahnces if i apply for llm @ nyu fordham hofta.. coz they are the only ones left..deadlines for the other schools ahve already expired...another thing i want 2 know is what are the job prospects in the US after i complete my llm from new york from one of the schools mentioned above and do i need to give the new york bar exam to get any job i mean is it mandatory to be admitted to the bar if u want to do a job in the US after doing an llm any suggessions would be welcome my email is devansahni@gmail.com Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:48:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#34590 hi guys! i am a graduate who plans to go to NYU directly after university.I am wondering wIll i be one of the several students from China out of the 400 students all over the world?I want to know what is my possibilities of an admission though I am with good grades and good intern experience. Mon, 27 Aug 2007 03:24:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#34812 This aversion to a large school is ridiculous: 1. Professors won't know me. No, class size is still the same, there are just more professors. 2. Rare is valuable. True for precious metals, opposite for degrees. Jobs and degrees deal in social networking. The bigger the alumni network (coupled with prestige) the more your degree is worth. Have fun hunting for help from alumni when there are only 80 a year. Aside from having more trouble finding an alumni to help you out there's really only one question, do you want 20 classes to chose from or a 100? I went to a big school for JD, and NYU for LLM, I am so happy with the plethora of interesting classes offered at all hours of the day. Sure I have a lot of people in the halls with me, but whether 100 or 500 students I can only handle being friends with about 20 so I don't care. Tue, 13 Nov 2007 19:49:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#36620 Hello everybody, I am an Italian lawyer who would love to undertake an LLM in New York, especially in NYU. I would like to find a job in a Manhattan law firm. Nevertheless, I would have a question: is it easy to find a job after NYU, Columbia or else? My question refers in particular to the corporate program of NYU. Thank you all. Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:50:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#36643 Or, at least: would I find a job? Fri, 16 Nov 2007 00:25:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#36679 It depends on so many factors - e.g. situation of the job market, country of origin, grades, etc. I think there is no sure thing when it comes to jobs, and the LLM can be a risky experience. For instance, 5 months ago, when I graduated, the market was upbeat, everybody was getting jobs, all firms were hiring the biggest classes ever... And many people relied on that. Now, with the credit crunch, etc., I have my doubts that the LLMs graduating in 2008 will have it as easy as the 2007 graduates had it... (I hope I'm wrong). On the question about whether the Columbia/ NYU grads have an advantage over other candidates re jobs: I think they do have a slight edge, since they have more chances to network due to the fact that they are in the City. Of course, it doesn't mean that they will beat grads from Harvard, Chicago, Duke or Penn - but they might be in a more favorable position. Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:06:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/21054/last#36756 I'm hesitating whether taking NYC L.L.M or Toronto/Ottawa LL.B to be admitted to local bar examination and probably find nice job in the same cities after graduating. As I can see, each of the choices has its benefits. As regards Canada, it's not a problem finding a good job after passing local LL.B (3 years) and bar exams. But what are the perspectives in NY? How hard is it to find a legal job after passing NY LL.M and bar exams, does anybody know?