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Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?

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british87


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 6
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:33 PM

Hi,

I am an Indonesian currently studying in the best law school in Indonesia (3rd semester). I am going to represent Indonesia in International Law Moot Court Competition in March 2007 in Hong Kong held by ICRC. I am planning after my graduation to study master of laws in international business in US. After that, work in US Law Firm. What do you think? Is foreign law firm needs foreign fresh grad who do not have JD but have LLM? or Is it better to take 2 year LLB after my graduation?

Thank you. I look forward to hearing from you soon.
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V-2007

Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 126
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:08 PM

Hi! In my opinion, you should definately work for at least 2 years in an ILF. It makes you a better LL.M applicant, allows for more benefit from LL.M program and makes your chances for further employment higher. Indeed, LL.M is designed as advance studies program and requires some understanding of the practical aspect of law. Again, 2-3 y of experience would give you much more chances during admission, except for Yale, probably (I'm not discussing 2nd tier law schools here).

Good like on the Moot.
V
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KAI

Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 10
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Tue Nov 28, 2006 03:24 AM
Hi,I am an Indonesian currently studying in the best law school in Indonesia (3rd semester). I am going to represent Indonesia in International Law Moot Court Competition in March 2007 in Hong Kong held by ICRC. I am planning after my graduation to study master of laws in international business in US. After that, work in US Law Firm. What do you think? Is foreign law firm needs foreign fresh grad who do not have JD but have LLM? or Is it better to take 2 year LLB after my graduation?Thank you. I look forward to hearing from you soon.


Jobs for LLMs in the U.S. ... This is a topic of its own. There are many factors to be considered: law school rank, your grades and achievements; current demand for and interest in particular LLMs from your country; networking; luck; friends; your inner resolve; ability to bring business and etc.

Always keep in mind the following: The whole idea of all LLM programs (besides TAX LLM - LLM in tax can be feasible even for JDs as it is viewed more as your specialization and perfection of your skills exactly in this and adjacent areas) - get some new data and information about the aspects you are interested in, pay the law school and go back to your home country. That is the general notion.
But it does not mean that LLMs do not find positions in the U.S.; If you are lucky enough - your job search might be short and fruitful' if not - it might be long and successful... or long and futile.

Do not forget this fact: with your LLM you can even come back to your home country and get a position in a top law firm... in which one cannot get without LLM. Say, Jones Day has a very big office in your country and it is relatively easy for you to get there after graduation , but Debevoise & Plimpton has a very small office and it is almost impossible for you to get there after graduation. If you have an LL.M. it might be easier to get into the latter or similar firms.

2) Do not forget about the bar requirement if you want to practice in the U.S.
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KAI

Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 10
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Tue Nov 28, 2006 03:31 AM

Hi! In my opinion, you should definately work for at least 2 years in an ILF. It makes you a better LL.M applicant, allows for more benefit from LL.M program and makes your chances for further employment higher. Indeed, LL.M is designed as advance studies program and requires some understanding of the practical aspect of law. Again, 2-3 y of experience would give you much more chances during admission, except for Yale, probably (I'm not discussing 2nd tier law schools here).

Good like on the Moot.
V


I think that he might try. If he does not get in the "place of his dreams" :))) - he might try another year. Remember that if one is in T14 (not only Harvard, Yale and Stanford) - one is still considered to be in tier 1. Even first 30-40 or so schools are considered to be tier 1. There are people without work experience at all (not even 6 months) at Harvard, Penn, NYU, Cornell and etc.
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KAI

Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 10
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Tue Nov 28, 2006 04:44 AM
Hmm... maybe... not first 30-40, but first 20-30, but you get the idea :)
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V-2007

Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 126
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Tue Nov 28, 2006 09:42 AM

I think that he might try. If he does not get in the "place of his dreams" :))) - he might try another year.


A costly exercise, by the way.... 4 schools costed me around $1,200 (time not included))). A factor to be considered when "trying"))).
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KAI

Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 10
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Tue Nov 28, 2006 01:29 PM

I think that he might try. If he does not get in the "place of his dreams" :))) - he might try another year.


A costly exercise, by the way.... 4 schools costed me around $1,200 (time not included))). A factor to be considered when "trying"))).


:) look into the future and not current expenses. Besides... you could have saved... say 100$ a month in the prior year for about 12 months. Not too much I guess. Especially for current ILF employee ;)
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british87


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 6
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Wed Nov 29, 2006 08:08 AM
Thank you for your replies...

May I know what is ILF stands for?
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KAI

Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 10
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Wed Nov 29, 2006 03:26 PM
Thank you for your replies...

May I know what is ILF stands for?


ILF = International Law Firm;
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UnderemployedLawyer

Joined: 19 Nov 2005
Posts: 94
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Thu Nov 30, 2006 07:24 PM
i don't have an opinion. all i can relate is my own experience. with a UK LLB (2.1) from a good (old) UK uni i was accepted into an LLM program at a top 30-40 US law school within the top tier i.e., top 50. even with the LLB and LLM and fluency in 2 western EU languages, i was unable to land a job in either the US,UK, or EU. so i did another 2 yrs and obtained the JD (graduated in the top 1/3). i was still unable to land a job in even a half decent law firm in the US or UK, so i worked for a small US firm in a nondescript US state for 2 yrs doing mostly civil litigation, during which time i clocked up bar admissions to now 3 US states (incl. NY and CAL) as well as England & Wales. I'm now a quadruple qualified lawyer (3 US states and the UK), with three law degrees (LLB, LLM & JD), 2 EU languages, and a few years experience (albeit at a small irrelevant firm).

i have never earned over $30,000/yr and am still unable to find a better job. Recruiters in the US have told me to forget ever working for even a medium sized city firm in the US, and that my chances of getting a jop as any type of half decent l paid awyer in the UK or EU are virtually nil.

like i said, not an opinion, just my subjective experience.
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josepidal

Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 237
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Thu Nov 30, 2006 07:50 PM
Getting a job in the US is also a product of networking, legwork and self-marketing. An LLM from Harvard, Yale, Stanford, NYU or Columbia, or language skills, or significant prior experience, etc., all help but you are never tied to these.

Also, the job market in 2001-2003 is probably very different from the one next year.
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british87


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 6
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Fri Dec 01, 2006 06:13 AM
Thank you for the replies. Btw, Is there any law school (LLM) in US that offer internship programme in law firm? and I am planning to work for 1 or 2 years before going back to Indonesia. Is finding permanent job in US has the same difficulties in finding internship programme?
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josepidal

Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 237
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Fri Dec 01, 2006 07:10 AM
I don't think any law school has that kind of arrangement. You will have difficulty because very few US firms have business in Indonesia, and I don't think any of them have offices there. Thus, you would have to give them a good reason why they would shoulder training you for one to two years when they could hire someone else with a more ambiguous exit plan.

It's not impossible, but you have to have a clear plan.
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british87


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 6
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Sat Feb 03, 2007 09:29 AM
Is there any 2 year USA Juris Doctor or 2 year UK Bachelor of Laws programme for Indonesian law grads?

Thank u...
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macgokil

Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 1
Foreign fresg grad, Is LLM essential to work in US Law Firm?
Wed Sep 24, 2008 05:28 PM
Thank you for the replies. Btw, Is there any law school (LLM) in US that offer internship programme in law firm? and I am planning to work for 1 or 2 years before going back to Indonesia. Is finding permanent job in US has the same difficulties in finding internship programme?


Law school in the US doesn't offer any job. They just helping you to find a job. They don't guarentee that you will find a job. For LLM program, every each candidate will get one year opportunity to work in the US after graduate. It's called OPT (Optional Practical Training). It doesn't need bar exam to do OPT. But, if you want to practice (giving legal advice) you should have a JD and pass bar exam. You need a JD to take bar exam. NY makes an exception for this. LLM can take bar exam without JD, it means you can just practice in NY. And, if I'm not wrong, If you hold a law degree from your back home, you can directly take JD program without taking LLM. JD will be 2 years program (regularly 3 years)
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