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LL.M. Discussion Board > USA > UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU 
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
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Big M  
Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 6 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
Mon Feb 19, 2007 07:55 AM
I have applied to UCLA, Cornell and Penn just before the application deadline. I am sure that I am able to get into at least one of them (I have received almost the maximum score in the TOEFL, graduated at the top 2% of my class in law school, have been working for one of the top law firms in my home country, taught corporate law on an academic level, etc.) The thing is that I missed NYU's and CLS' application deadlines . Do you think that I should wait another year and apply to these schools or that I should go to UCLA, Cornell or Penn assuming that I will be accepted to one of these schools? Please note that my main goal is to be able to find a job in the US after graduation. I really appreciate your opinion in this matter. Big M.
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| yueping Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 109 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
Penn is a great school, so assuming you are admitted at Penn, just take the opportunity.
Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:11 AM |
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| josepidal Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 237 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
Tue Feb 20, 2007 03:38 AM Please note that my main goal is to be able to find a job in the US after graduation. If you have an interesting background and extracurriculars, it looks like you have a shot at the "top" schools, which I believe is a big help when you're trying to talk to the good firms, even in a hot market like this one. What field are you interested in exactly? Did you consider HLS and Stanford (and Yale, considering you have taught)? |
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| black Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 67 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
I would wait if you can. Target the top schools next year.
Thu Feb 22, 2007 02:07 AM |
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ivan2006  Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 312 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
Considering that you want to land a job in the US, maybe you should consider the possibility of waiting for next year. Your final decision may take into account many other factors (e.g. field of specialization, location of the school, etc.), but I think you could have a better shot if you were admitted at schools like Harvard, Columbia, Stanford, NYU, UChicago or Georgeotwn.
Thu Feb 22, 2007 04:45 AM |
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| Kitiyad
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 4 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
Getting a job in the US is very difficult. It depends on where your are from. If you are from China, Japan, Germany or South American Conutries, you have more chances to be hired. It doesn't matter which school you go to or whether you pass the bar exam or not. Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:50 PM I just wanted to let you know. KD |
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figaro  Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 87 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:56 PM Getting a job in the US is very difficult. It depends on where your are from. If you are from China, Japan, Germany or South American Conutries, you have more chances to be hired. It doesn't matter which school you go to or whether you pass the bar exam or not. Can I ask why you think job prospects for LLM students from those countries are better? [Edited 25 Feb 2007 by figaro] |
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| josepidal Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 237 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
They are, to varying degrees, important or emerging legal markets.
Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:00 PM |
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| Kitiyad
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 4 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
To answer figaro,Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:37 PM You have to keep in mind that law frims can survive with revenue from their clients. American clients normally have business with those countries. Therefore, law frims need someone who can communicate and understand culture of working environments in Those countires well. I am not saying that there is 0% from other countries but it is just more difficult. US legal market is so competitive. If you really want to relocate to the US. I would reccomend you to apply for a JD degree. KD |
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| figaro Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 87 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
josepidal: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:38 PM meaning, that after working for a short period in the states lawyers from those countries usually go back and work for the local office of U.S. law firms? or do U.S. law firms maintain country desks (e.g. chinese or german desk) where foreign lawyers can work permanently? thx! [Edited 25 Feb 2007 by figaro] |
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| josepidal Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 237 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
More like Latin American practice groups that operate out of New York, due to time zone convenience. They are not necessarily staffed by foreign lawyers in that they will rarely practice local law in a Latin American country.
Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:40 PM |
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| Kitiyad
Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 4 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
Most of the LLMs usually get a 1 year trainning at a law firm. From what I know, they will have to return to their home country. I haven't heard that they are offered a position when they leave the US just yet. A permanent position is possible but not likely. You might try to do a job search for a new position at a new lawfirm while your OPT visa is still valid.Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:44 PM KD |
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| figaro Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 87 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
josepidal + KD: thx. Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:45 PM I have often heard that doing a JD is better if you want to work in the States permanently. But I dont really understand why that is. Pls correct me if I am wrong, but if you work for a big u.s. law firm (say in finance), you will be able to gain the necessary knowledge by attending courses during your LLM year. The only difference (and again pls correct me if I am wrong) between JDs and LLMs is that JDs have to deal with a lot more subjects (e.g. criminal law, public law etc.) than LLMs. But in the end if you work in banking, you dont need those subjects. As an LLM, you can better tailor your curriculum and focus on necessary subjects for the job. What do you think? [Edited 25 Feb 2007 by figaro] |
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| josepidal Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 237 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
I think you should read the many ongoing threads on this topic.
Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:53 PM |
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| figaro Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 87 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
there are a lot indeed.
Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:58 PM |
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| josepidal Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 237 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
It's largely a time+cost / increased probability of landing a job question. Of course being a JD leads to higher employability.
Mon Feb 26, 2007 01:53 AM |
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| stavilo
Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Posts: 3 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
Mon Feb 26, 2007 03:45 AM but I think you could have a better shot if you were admitted at schools like Harvard, Columbia, Stanford, NYU, UChicago or Georgeotwn. You have got to be kidding... Why would one "have a better shot" by going to Georgetown ? Georgetown is ranked number 14, and is below Penn or even Cornell. Not to mention that Georgetown's website specifically says that their own LLM program is nor recommended if you wish to take the NY bar... If he gets admitted to Penn, he has a good shot at landing a job in the US. For info, there are already a number of students at Penn Law this year who secured a job in NY already, and yes, in Vault top 10 law firms. And no, I am not talking about a lame 1-year internship, but full Associate positions in NY firms. [Edited 26 Feb 2007 by stavilo] |
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| josepidal Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 237 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
My, what an incredible temper.Mon Feb 26, 2007 05:00 AM Might you be Yueping, now quoting Vault instead of AmLaw? |
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| figaro Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 87 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:30 PM [Edited 26 Feb 2007 by figaro] |
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| figaro Joined: 24 Feb 2007 Posts: 87 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:32 PM Not to mention that Georgetown's website specifically says that their own LLM program is nor recommended if you wish to take the NY bar... I am not sure but it seems that in general US law schools are sceptical about foreign lawyers finding a job in the States. Penn is definitely a good school and personally, I would choose Penn over Georgetown, but when I talked to one of the admission people from Penn, I was told that I shouldnt keep my hopes up as to finding a job in the States. I had the impression that LLMs dont do very well at job searching... How is the career office at Penn or any other schools? Do they actively support LLMs or are they bugged by the LLMs and rather focus on JDs? Thx! |
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| ivan2006 Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 312 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
Mon Feb 26, 2007 02:29 PM but I think you could have a better shot if you were admitted at schools like Harvard, Columbia, Stanford, NYU, UChicago or Georgeotwn. Wow, I just hope that when you secure your "full Associate position in NY in Vault top 10 firms" and not a "lame 1-year internship" you don´t lose your temper like that... in order to prevent future outbursts of rage, I will answer your question by saying that yes, I was kidding. |
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| ivan2006 Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 312 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
Mon Feb 26, 2007 03:39 PM but I think you could have a better shot if you were admitted at schools like Harvard, Columbia, Stanford, NYU, UChicago or Georgeotwn. Btw, just a final remark on that: although I do not study at Georgetown, I think they have an impressive faculty and very good courses (specially in my specialty - Tax). In addition, DC is a very good job market. So I do not understand why you bash them this way. Considering that nobody did this to UPenn - correct me if I am wrong, but nobody here said that UPenn was not a fine school or that UPenn LLMs are jobless-, the fact that you, my dear "Penn Punisher" defend your school by attacking others´ is rude and pointless. In addition, you are misinforming people when you said GU´s LLM is not recommended if you want to take the bar - they say the primary goal of the LLM program is not to prepare anyone to sit for the bar exam. And this applies to any LLM program in the US (including UPenn and NYU´s), since you will probably not be taking all the 1L courses. |
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| stavilo
Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Posts: 3 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
I don't understand where you see an "outburst of temper", I merely stated the hard facts. Mon Feb 26, 2007 06:30 PM Don't get me wrong, Georgetown is a great school, probably the best in D.C., with outstanding faculty and impressive students. However, it seems to me that accross the forum, the general consensus has been that it is advisable to go to the highest ranking school (please correct me if I am wrong), therefore it would not be very consistent with the consensus to advise a person to go to a lower ranked school yet claiming he will get a "better shot". Again, I have nothing against Georgetown, but I would recommend going to the highest ranking school possible (Harvard, Yale, Columbia, NYU, Chigago, Penn, etc.) but the author of the thread clearly stated the schools he applied to and the highest ranked one IMO is Penn (the title of the thread does mention NYU, but he did not actually apply to NYU). Penn's career services (just as other great schools such as Harvard, etc.) do help LLMs in the job search. Landing a job is difficult, but the economy is good this year. No, I am not that person and have not quoted AmLaw either. I would not recommend delaying an additional year before applying because there is no telling how the economy will be then. [Edited 26 Feb 2007 by stavilo] |
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| josepidal Joined: 18 Oct 2005 Posts: 237 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
Amazing how your tone changes when confronted with one person who claims to be an NYU student and another who claims to be an HLS student.Mon Feb 26, 2007 06:57 PM US News is useful for something after all, no? |
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| stavilo
Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Posts: 3 |
UCLA, Cornell, UPenn or NYU
Mon Feb 26, 2007 07:08 PM Amazing how your tone changes when confronted with one person who claims to be an NYU student and another who claims to be an HLS student. What tone change ? My initial post (which was interpreted as rude and condescending simply) was already a reply to the statement from the guy from NYU. I merely mentionned other schools (such as Harvard, NYU, etc.) since people get offended that I do not mention their schools when talking about great schools. [Edited 26 Feb 2007 by stavilo] |
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