LLM GUIDE - Master of Laws (LL.M.) Programs Worldwide

LLM Discussion Board

LL.M. Discussion Board > USA > NYU or Chicago ? RSS Feed

NYU or Chicago ?

Author Message
kelvino

Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 7
NYU or Chicago ?
Thu Mar 22, 2007 08:32 AM
I was admitted by NYU and Chicago. Which one do you think better ? I know that NYU is slightly better in US News ranking. However, I know NYU accepts a large number of students and some people say that Chicago has "better" reputation than NYU. I think living in Chicago has drawback and advantage, and it's same for living in NY. So what I want to know most is the reputation of both lawschool.
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
keyser_soze


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 42
NYU or Chicago ?
Thu Mar 22, 2007 09:03 AM
If we only speak abt rankings, it's true that NYU is ranked 1 place ahead of Chicago on US news, but on all the other rankings (student quality, bar pass rate, supreme court clekship placement...) Chicago is better ranked than NYU, and U of Chicago is ranked 8 worldwide by Shanghai ranking whereas NYU is 30th. The global reputation of the University also counts.

One significant advantage abt Chicago is that you will be in a small class of 50 students, which is a guarantee of quality and selection. In NYU, there are surely outstanding students, but I believe the medium standard would be lower than Chicago (correct me if I am wrong).

I think that I would choose Chicago, especially if you don't have a scholarship at NYU.

[Edited 22 Mar 2007 by keyser_soze]
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
dam

Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 101
NYU or Chicago ?
Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:08 AM
I totally agree with keyser_soze.
If you have to spend the same amount of money, go to Chicago.
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
tmalmine

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 236
NYU or Chicago ?
Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:55 PM
It's a very close competition and you can't go wrong either way. Just to get some additional insights to the debate, here's mine:

1) Chicago is very good in fostering scholarly talent and productivity: it produces lots of influential scholars and promising young ones. Smaller program will probably make it easier to have some personal supervision. Hence, Chicago might be a good choice for those aspiring for a career in academia (depending on your field of interest, see below).

2) Chicago and NYU have different academic profiles. NYU is great for legal philosophy and international law, for example. Chicago is excellent for law and economics. Both are strong on corporate law and related stuff. What do you want to study? Surely these differences should have some influence on your decision-making.

3) While Chicago is the better-known and more prestigious university (as Mr Soze correctly pointed out), NYU Law School probably has wider international alumni network. This goes for Northern Europe, at least, I'm not sure about other parts of the world. This should be taken into consideration if you're going to work outside the US.

4) If you're an anti-capitalist and anti-marketeer, you might not like some of the professors at Chicago:)

5) Choosing between schools as close as these two, I would give some weight to regional issues (I would choose NY over Chicago, even though I know that many people love Chicago).

6) Thus, my main concerns would be: the size of the program (Chicago wins on this one), fields of interest (mine are better represented at NYU), regional issues, career objectives, and perhaps the reputation (Chicago LL.M. being more exclusive, while NYU program having larger alumni network outside the US).

It's a tough call.

Toni
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
ivan2006


Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 312
NYU or Chicago ?
Thu Mar 22, 2007 03:31 PM
If we only speak abt rankings, it's true that NYU is ranked 1 place ahead of Chicago on US news, but on all the other rankings (student quality, bar pass rate, supreme court clekship placement...) Chicago is better ranked than NYU, and U of Chicago is ranked 8 worldwide by Shanghai ranking whereas NYU is 30th. The global reputation of the University also counts.

One significant advantage abt Chicago is that you will be in a small class of 50 students, which is a guarantee of quality and selection. In NYU, there are surely outstanding students, but I believe the medium standard would be lower than Chicago (correct me if I am wrong).

I think that I would choose Chicago, especially if you don't have a scholarship at NYU.


I think it is not as simple as that. You should take into account your specialization. If it were true, a Chicago LLM candidate specialized in international law should be a better student than an NYU one. However, NYU is #1 in International Law, and probably the benefits of being a NYU grad will be greater. Vice-versa: if you want to specialize in Law and Economics, Chicago is a no-brainer, you must go there.

I think the reference to the Shanghai ranking is misleading, as this ranking refers to the university as a whole, and not to the quality of the law schools. Although all rankings are hedious, the US News one is a more reliable source.

In addition, I wonder how can someone measure the "qualilty" of LLMs, specially in a context where there specialization matters a lot. For instance, the best school in the US in IP law is Berkeley; #3 is George Washington University. Would you say that a HLS LLM specialized in this field is "better" than the Berkeley or the GWU one? He may presume of his HLS credentials, but professionals specialized in this field may take rely more heavily on rankings.

Finally, I think that if you do not want to specialize in a specific field (after all, there are people who donīt like to be pidgeonholed), choosing between UChicago and NYU is a matter of taste - you cannot go wrong. Personally speaking, I think UChicago is great - my wife earned her MBA from Chicago GSB - and I loved the campus and city.
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
kelvino

Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 7
NYU or Chicago ?
Fri Mar 23, 2007 03:23 AM
Thank you fo all of your comments !!!! I'm a lawyer and plan to study corporate law.

I want to ask you about class size of both school. Most of people refers to the small class size of Chicago, and I am attracted to it. However, is it true ? Although NYU has larger number of LLM students, I suppose NYU offers many and various classes, and therefore, the number of students per one class is not so different from the one of Chicago. In fact, my friend who are now studying in NYU said that most classes in NYU has less than 30- 50 students. I know that Chicago has only 50 LLM students. However, there are JD students who will attend the same classes. Is the class size of Chicago really such small ??

In addition, is there anyone who will choose NYU other than for the regional reason ?
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
dannyh

Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 19
NYU or Chicago ?
Fri Mar 23, 2007 03:41 AM
I would choose Chicago, because Chicago program is smaller, and because Chicago's faculty is simply top-notch IMO.
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
kelvino

Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 7
NYU or Chicago ?
Wed Mar 28, 2007 08:26 AM
Mmm..It seems most people prefer Chicago.. Is there anyone who will choose NYU ?
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
dam

Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 101
NYU or Chicago ?
Wed Mar 28, 2007 08:32 AM
I was admitted to NYU and Columbia; still waiting for Chicago.
I would choose Chicago over NYU eight days a week. Don't know about CLS vs. Chicago though.
Of course, this is just what dam would do.
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
figaro


Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 87
NYU or Chicago ?
Wed Mar 28, 2007 08:47 AM
I have been admitted to NYU and Chicago and I would choose Chicago over NYU.

I have been admitted to Columbia as well and you are right dam: Chicago vs. Columbia is a tough call.

In making a decision, I find the postings of current llms very helpful.

[Edited 28 Mar 2007 by figaro]
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
sanjopanza

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 15
NYU or Chicago ?
Wed Mar 28, 2007 05:14 PM
I made this very choice last Wednesday. I went for NYU. It wasn't easy, but I am sure I made the right choice for myself. I am not planning to specialise in International Law but a not-insignificant number of my courses will be in PIL fields, and NYU's International Law courses are a lot more impressive than Chicago's.

I'm doing the General Studies LLM next year and most of my course choices will be in constitutional and administrative law. Chicago has Sunstein, who is a hero in constitutional law. However, I chose on the basis of the range and content of courses in these fields at both schools and concluded that I liked the NYU ones better. Plus NYU has Waldron and Stewart.

Chicago's small LLM class really did appeal to me, but I agree with the above post - the fact that JDs and LLMs take class jointly undermines that.

As for prestige / reputation / whatever you want to call it, I think Chicago probably has a slight edge, but this isn't what I based my decision on. I based it on where I felt I would be able to make the most of a year studying American public law.

Finally, location wasn't a priority but New York for a year was a big pull factor.
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
Lucinda

Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 92
NYU or Chicago ?
Wed Mar 28, 2007 06:50 PM
I chose NYU ... I had no hesitation.
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
Ayzac

Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 26
NYU or Chicago ?
Wed Mar 28, 2007 09:47 PM
Same: NYU.
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
kelvino

Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 7
NYU or Chicago ?
Fri Mar 30, 2007 05:52 AM
Lucida and Ayzac, why did you choose NYU ?
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
Lucinda

Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 92
NYU or Chicago ?
Fri Mar 30, 2007 07:23 AM
I chose NYU because I wanted an LL.M specialized in IP and I prefered the subjects taught on the question there.
Also because I love NYC, much more than Chic.
Finally because in my country, NYU is much more known by big law firms than Chic. but this is in my country.
But bear in mind that its a personal choice ... at the end of the day, ull be the one attending the LS in august.
Anyway thats a great choice to make!
Best,
Lucinda
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
pollux

Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 2
NYU or Chicago ?
Fri Mar 30, 2007 08:58 AM
Hi
I've been admitted to both NYU and Chicago and I will go for Chicago.

See you there!
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
redfox

Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 43
NYU or Chicago ?
Fri Mar 30, 2007 07:21 PM
Cool Pollux, me as well! Where r u from?
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
Ayzac

Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 26
NYU or Chicago ?
Fri Mar 30, 2007 08:17 PM
Lucida and Ayzac, why did you choose NYU ?


Kelvino, I wanted to read some environmental law, and it's not one of Chicago's strong points.

From what I've heard of friends who went to Chicago, the professors are fantastic, and the amount of work requested from LL.M. students is considerable... more so than NYU. Which wouldn't have put me off if it hadn't been for the fact mentioned above.

From what I've heard, anyway, LL.M.s have a great time in these two places, albeit a very different experience.
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
Kasia

Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 29
NYU or Chicago ?
Fri Mar 30, 2007 09:18 PM
I'm an anti-capitalist and anti-marketeer and I'd choose Chicago! Just for the sake of confronation and sharpening my argumentation skills :) I love Chicago's faculty, especially Posner sen.
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
kelvino

Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 7
NYU or Chicago ?
Mon Apr 02, 2007 04:35 AM
Guys, thank you for all your advice.

I now feel like going to Chicago, but my concern for Chicago is security. I heard that the security is not very good in south Chicago (around University of Chicago) .

Do all guys who will going to (or went to )Chicago find it OK ?
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
J.R.

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 24
NYU or Chicago ?
Mon Apr 02, 2007 03:14 PM
Guys, thank you for all your advice.

I now feel like going to Chicago, but my concern for Chicago is security. I heard that the security is not very good in south Chicago (around University of Chicago) .

Do all guys who will going to (or went to )Chicago find it OK ?


You should check some previous posts about Chicago. They explain very well what the Law School here is like.

About your security question: both Chicago and NY are world cities, so neither of them is completely safe. But with some common sense, you will not get into trouble.
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
tini83

Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 41
NYU or Chicago ?
Mon Apr 02, 2007 05:57 PM
I'm heading to Chicago as well. Redfox, we should definitely all meet up in Zurich!
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
Goring

Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 12
NYU or Chicago ?
Wed Mar 19, 2008 06:34 PM
Hey folks, Iīm so glad I found this discussion! The question weather Chicago or NYU is bothering me for more than two weeks! I felt more sypathies for Chicago, and it seems a bit more "edgy" to me. No contest, students are quite dedicated there, but I ask myself if UoChicago had a look on personal backgrounds (interesting travels, special hobbies..) when it came to their admission or if it was a selection purely based on academic achievements; here comes my question:

Do you think LL.M. students at Chicago have time to go out to the Loop every now and then (say, once or twice a week until 23h30) or would I miss the great opportunity to make friends from all over the world because everyone has to absorbe his books all night long?

Concerning the reputation, I would consider it a randsom - action to select a totally different academic atmosphere just because of a slightly better ranking of NYU; still, we all might have experienced that "first sight legitimation" sometimes counts ("la sable aux yeux") so that I spoke to some internatioanlly experienced attorneys-at-law in central Europe. They told me unanimously that the degrees of NYU and UoC are considered to be equal. Therefore, I have decided to look which atmosphere I prefer personally.

Oh, thereīs a second question that comes into my mind:

Do you have any experiences with the teaching style at Chicago? Personally, I think that itīs sometimes nice to be challenged, but I ask myself if the basic attitude in Chicago is to "make students feel stupid and humble". For somebody like me whose motivation to study law is already self - driven, such an environment would not be too fruitful...

Thanks for your answers! Goring
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
Dumdedum

Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 25
NYU or Chicago ?
Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:46 PM

About your security question: both Chicago and NY are world cities, so neither of them is completely safe. But with some common sense, you will not get into trouble.


tfu tfu tfu, the Village where NYU is, is as safe as can be, from what they say.
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote
Goring

Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 12
NYU or Chicago ?
Wed Mar 26, 2008 09:52 AM
Iīve got another question in mind: Iīve heard that at the University of Chicago, there are 3/4 male students; do you know weather this would be the same within the Law School?
Show ProfileProfile P.M. Quote