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2 year LLB for Foreign Lawyers? (Canada)

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LLMARK

Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 27
2 year LLB for Foreign Lawyers? (Canada)
Sun Apr 29, 2007 05:49 AM
Hey everybody.

I was wondering if there are any schools in Canada which offer a two-year LLB for foreign lawyers? Do Canadian law schools give advanced standing to those with degrees from foreign jurisdictions? I will be attending Georgetown for an LLM, but I am beginning to question the utility of this degree in terms of Canadian job prospects....

thanks.
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Wade

Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 23
2 year LLB for Foreign Lawyers? (Canada)
Sun Apr 29, 2007 06:54 PM
Hi,

The is no 2 year LL.B. program for foreign graduates at any Canadian law school. Your foreign credentials will be evaluated by the National Committee on Accreditation (NCA). Once your credentials have been evaluated by the NCA then there are three options for foreign graduates:

First, you can obtain a "certificate of qualification" by attending a Canadian law school as a non-degree student for one or two years (usually two) and completing required courses. However, you do not obtain a Canadian law degree and not all Canadian law schools accept NCA students.

Second, you can complete a set number of challenge exams based on your NCA assessment. You will almost always have to write between 8-12 exams (usually 11 or 12). However, these exams are only offered two times per year, so you will not be able to complete them in one year. It would almost certainly take you two years to complete all of these exams, hence most foreign students prefer the first option of obtaining a certificate of qualification from a Canadian law school instead.

Finally, you can choose to apply as a first year student for the LL.B. and compete with everyone else for being accepted. Competition is extremely competitive and will require a very good GPA and decent LSAT score. The length of the degree is 3 years full-time. The benefit of this option is that you obtain a Canadian law degree but you essentially start over. However, I know many foreign students who attempt this route since its only an extra year for most.

These are the only options that foreign students have in order to qualify for the Bar exam in a Canadian province and be able to participate in an article of clerkship.
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LLMARK

Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Posts: 27
2 year LLB for Foreign Lawyers? (Canada)
Mon Apr 30, 2007 05:22 AM


The benefit of this option is that you obtain a Canadian law degree but you essentially start over. However, I know many foreign students who attempt this route since its only an extra year for most.




thanks for the reply.

I am still a bit confused, however. I would like to obtain a Canadian law degree, I'm just not too keen on committing 3 years to the process. By this last sentence in your reply, does this mean that I would be able to apply as a first-year and obtain a LLB in approximately one year? that would be fantastic if possible...

thanks again.
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Wade

Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 23
2 year LLB for Foreign Lawyers? (Canada)
Mon Apr 30, 2007 08:11 AM
Hi,

Sorry if there was any confusion. If you want a Canadian law degree you will have to apply to the first year of the LL.B. program. You would have to complete the full three years. There is no other option if you want to obtain a Canadian law degree.

However, if you are just looking for access to the Bar, then a foreign graduate can obtain a certificate of qualification or complete the NCA challenge exams usually in 2 years.

As you can see, it is very difficult for foreign law graduates to be recognized in Canada.
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Armando


Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 46
2 year LLB for Foreign Lawyers? (Canada)
Tue May 01, 2007 01:29 PM
Hi, It is possible to get credits for the courses you've taken on your first law degree. It depends on the university.
I went the Laval University and they gave me 48 credits for my Salvadoran law degree. You need 99 credits to complete the degree so I had almost half of the degree accredited. At Laval a law degree is usually done in 3.5 - 4 years.
I only had to do 2 years but I could have done it earlier if I would have taken more classes every session. It would have been possible for me to do it in 1.5 year taking 3 summer classes and 12 classes during the fall and winter.
The only thing is that I had to learn French since Laval is a French University but I did it because I really wanted to learn French. McGill is the English University in Quebec but their degree is longer because you get a law degree in Common Law and Civil Law.
After finish your degree you still have to pass the Bar, we have to go to Bar school, which can be done either in 4 or 8 months. That's what I am doing right now.
So as everyone before said...it is not easy to practice law in Canada but you can definetely do it.
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Wade

Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 23
2 year LLB for Foreign Lawyers? (Canada)
Wed May 02, 2007 03:27 AM
Hi Armando,

I did not include Quebec because of its civil law jurisdiction. Most common law schools in other provinces do not award the advanced credits that you received. Quebec is quite different from the rest of Canada. Laval is a civil law school and civil law schools are different in their assessments and qualifications.

The NCA would be moot if foreign law graduates were awarded advanced credits the same way in the rest of Canada. It should be noted that the NCA does not apply to civil law schools in Quebec. Foreign law graduates applying for advanced standing to common law schools MUST apply through the NCA. This includes McGill but not Laval.

The bottom line is that Quebec is an island onto itself for civil law, but for common law, a foreign law graduate cannot do what Armando did with his civil law degree. For common law, you virtually have to start over in order to be awarded a Canadian LL.B. Some foreign graduates may be exempt from certain elective courses but that would depend on the school.
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Sean78

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 23
2 year LLB for Foreign Lawyers? (Canada)
Thu May 10, 2007 04:39 PM
As Wade pointed out above - there seems to be a distinction between getting a Canadian LLB vs. getting called to the bar in a particular province. I'm guessing from your email that you ultimately want to practice law in Canada so you probably want to go the route of figuring out what the law society in the province you intend to practice is going to require that you take in order to be eligible for call to the bar - after all, you already have an LLB.

As described above the law society will send you off to the NCA to determine how many (and which) courses you will need to take to get yourself up to speed on Canadian law.

In this respect, the law society's practice seems discriminatory and might not stand up to a challenge in court. How does it discriminate? By requiring the NCA's recommendations - they in effect require foreign trained lawyers to take courses that Canadian trained students would not have to take. ie certain Canadian LLB programs have very very few compulsory courses and it is thus possible to graduate from Canadian LLB programs without ever taking tax law, the law of evidence (imagine that!), trusts, legal ethics (imagine that too!) and the list goes on and on... friends I know in this situation are always told they need to take a handful of courses including tax, evidence, etc.... If law societies are requiring foreign trained students to take courses that Canadian's don't have to, then in my view - they are on shaky constitutional footing - particularly under s. 15 of the Charter. They make a non-trivial distinction based on (and here is the tricky part) the grounds of the nationality of your educational credentials... legally speaking, to be successful in court the argument would need to establish that 'the nationality of your educational credentials' is either enumerated or analogous grounds protected by the equality provisions under s. 15 of the Charter (see P.W. Hogg's book "Constitutional Law of Canada")

In any event, you might not be interested in a Court challenge - but what better way to get acquainted with the laws of Canada!

Sean
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ana23

Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 1
2 year LLB for Foreign Lawyers? (Canada)
Wed Aug 27, 2008 05:42 PM
I feel the NCA's recommendations are discriminatory and lack consistency.
In my case, I completed my LL.B (Hons.) degree in England and applied to the NCA.
Although, I am eager to comply with the NCA’s recommendations, it is practically impossible. This is because the NCA recommended me to complete the entire first year at a Canadian law school and to complete additional upper year courses. No law school can admit me as an NCA student, because Canadian law schools cannot accommodate NCA students who are required to complete the entire first year. Furthermore, Canadian law schools have very limited spaces for NCA students and these spaces are usually reserved for upper year studies.
My question is how could the NCA make recommendations that are impossible to follow? Shouldn’t their recommendations be in accordance with law school admission guidelines? Was the NCA aware and intentionally made such recommendations knowing the fact that it would be impossible to comply with such recommendations?
I feel hopeless by not being able to comply with the NCA recommendations. If the recommendations permitted me to write challenge exams for the first year and complete all other subjects at a Canadian law school it would be possible for me to obtain admission and therefore comply with the recommendations accordingly.
Additionally, I feel that the NCA’s recommendations lack consistency because a friend of mine completed the same program, at the same school and obtained the same standing, but unlike to my recommendations she was given various options which included: completing subjects at a Canadian law school or writing challenge exams or the two first options combined.
At this point, I am considering completing an LL.M in the U.S, and in the future practice as a lawyer over there.
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ana
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cowboyblues

Joined: 18 Dec 2005
Posts: 74
2 year LLB for Foreign Lawyers? (Canada)
Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:28 PM
Hi Ana,

The Canadian NCA requirements are extremely protectionist and inconsistent (I've been told many a time now it's all to do with preventing a flood of US lawyers entering Ca law firms - although I'm sure the official reason is somewhat different). I know people who have very similar qualifications/experience but have wildly different outcomes ranging from 2 to 11 exams - almost enough to put you off?? (possibly that's the intention!).

However, I have not heard of anyone who has been put in the position where they need to complete a whole first year at a Canadian law school and then challenge exams. This seems very harsh for someone with an English law degree (although did you get good grades etc?).

The only thing you could do is a two year advance standing Canadian LLB - which would probably take the same amount of time, but you end up with a degree at the end.

[Edited 28 Aug 2008 by cowboyblues]
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