http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097 en Graduate LLB Course - LLM GUIDE Discussion Board Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:01:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35097 Hello all, I'm new to this site. I am an America student. I'm about to graduate with my US Bachelor's degree. I am looking into law s chools in the UK with the idea of eventually practicing law in the UK. I am looking at the University City College of London. My concern is that if I go to the UK take the two year course in the Gradaute Entry LLB, and then either the BVC or the LPC, that I won't be able to secure pupalige, or a sponsorship from a UK law firm. With the immigration requirements being as they are, I don't want to go over there only to come back to the States to have to go to more school just to take the Bar, say in D.C. I realize this site is concerning LLM programs. But I wasn't sure where else to turn to. Any suggestions would be very helpful. Thanks for the time! Sat, 08 Sep 2007 21:30:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35105 I would imagine that you would be better to do a JD then your bar exams then try and get a job in the UK. One of the things that I would check out is whether a 2 year LLB will qualifiy you to sit the NY bar which a 3 year degree will because it would be a way of ensuring you had somewhere to qualify if it all went wrong in the UK. You could also apply straight to do the GDL then the LPC and then look to get a job without doing the LLB at all. To be honest the best thing you could do is contact the schools you are interested in applying to explain who you are and ask if they could put you in contact with any students or graduates they have who have taken a similar route. Sat, 08 Sep 2007 23:28:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35106 Am I crazy for wanting to go to another country and study law with the idea of sucureing a job afterward? I mean, I could go over to the UK, do the course, and not even get sponsored. I could come back here and have trouble getting a job because I don't have a JD. I am not sure what to do, and need to decide so that I can take the nessecary courses. Whatever other advice would be great. Thanks! Sun, 09 Sep 2007 15:25:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35118 Quick question. Could anyone please teel me the reputation of City University London? Are they a good school? I don't really know much about them? Thanks, whatever information would be very helpful! Sun, 09 Sep 2007 23:19:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35130 If I were you I wouldn't even touch City University, London with a barge pole. Sun, 09 Sep 2007 23:54:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35133 I am having diifculity finding a university with a Graduate Entry LLB program. Any advice, does any know of any others with that program in England??? Thanks! It's diifcult finding these things online and learning about the schools reputations. Any advice is well appreciated. Mon, 10 Sep 2007 00:44:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35137 USAN'UK, There are a few Graduate LLB programmes in the UK, I believe Queen Marys offers one, as does Bristol. I am studying at City University on the GE LLB, and we have a number of North American students on the course. It is relatively small, numbering around 40 in all, however the students are a diverse and interesting bunch. Of course, as a student, your primary concern will be the quality of the education. I believe City offers a decent and interesting syllabus, with a number of unusual and engaging electives. The comment by 'Sunil' that he would not touch City with a barge pole is not particularly helpful, although I will concede that as an undergrad education provider City University certainly has a long way to go. What you must bear in mind is that you are essentially entering grad school. For postgraduate, professional orientated studies, such as Finance, Law and Heathcare, City has a very robust reputation. In terms of facilities, City is fairly good, moreover it has merged with Inns of Court School of Law, an institution with an excellent reputation. In terms of value for money [Bristol is far more expensive as a course provider] and location, City is unrivalled. If you are keen on studying in the UK, and London in particular, I would advise you take a close look at Queen Marys and City, both of which have solid reputations. A relevant footnote is that Queen Marys is part of the University of London, while City is not. Alternatively, if you believe you have the grades and the drive, you can apply to do an LLB in two years at Oxford University. Mon, 10 Sep 2007 02:07:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35138 Thanks for the help. SInce you are in City, would mind answering a couple of questions for me. Do think it's unrealistic for me to go to England in the hopes of eventually getting a job with a law firm there, being an American and all. Thanks for the help! Mon, 10 Sep 2007 10:04:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35140 You could also apply to Cambridge Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:03:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35141 College of Law in London is exclusively teaching law courses. Maybe you should also enquire about their courses. http://www.college-of-law.co.uk/prospective_students/default-32.html Hope this helps... Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:26:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35144 Second Sunil's advice. Steer clear of City University. In fact if you check past posts(posted, I think, last year) on LLM Guide forum, some disgruntled ex-students (doing law courses at City) had talked about their total disillusionment of their time spent doing law course at City Univ. Do also go through this past thread: http://www.llm-guide.com/board/6558/rss I think things got so bad in this discussion(6588) that a staff member Dr Riley of City Univ. had to intervene to defend the 'reputation'? of City University. In fact, someone had very recently commented that City Univ is 'Z' tier or something... Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:28:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35148 In regards to applying to Oxford, do I need to take the LNAT to apply for that program, I couldn't find it online. Also, in regards to concerns about City, I thaught that I saw it was ranked 23 by that Times UK article, is that correct? Furthermore, with applying to Cambridge, do I need to take the LNAT?? I have no idea what is on this exam, is it much like the US LSAT?? Thanks for all the help and suggestions!! Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:31:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35149 USAN'UK Before I go any further, I want to make it clear I'm not engaging in a debate about the reputation of City University. The regrettable intervention by Mr Riley was well-intentioned however it failed to mend any fences. Furthermore, as a City student myself it is likely I will be perceived as biased. So I won't waste time on that and instead try and answer your question. As I previously mentioned, there are a number of North Americans on the course, this has been a trend year on year. My feeling is that most employers will see City as a university which provides you with vocational training. My intention in doing the 2 year LLB [I switched from a three year at SOAS] was to save time, money and to learn a little more than I would on a straightforward conversion course. In London at least, City has a good reputation because of the people it attracts, in particular on the conversion course. It is a step on the way to qualifiying, much like the LPC. The advantage of the 2 year LLB is that it allows employers to see you engaging with law on a different level, and allows you to demonstrate your interest and potential through particular electives. It doesn't matter that you're American! London is an international city, and its law firms want to achieve an international profile. This means they must endeavour to recruit from outside the UK. My honest opinion is that if you have the funds, and the grades, you should do a JD at a good school in the states. Most people are cognisant of the fact that legal training in the US is of a different calibre to the UK. You can always pop over here to do your LPC. However if you are committed to studying in the UK and want to do a 2 year Graduate LLB, there are few options. City is a forerunner simply because its been running the course for so long, and because of the excellence of its conversion course. Study here, and graduate in the top quarter of the class and you'll be fine. This is providing that you have a good bachelors degree from a well-reputed university in the US. P.S. Apropos Oxbridge - I'm not sure about the entry requirements for international students although I expect that you would not have to take the UK equivalent of LNAT. I can't be certain on this, but I'm pretty sure that if they offer you a place on an accelerated LLB, it will not be on the basis of such a test. Rather, it will be predicated on your transcript and interview, both of which will have to be appropriately impressive. In relation to your question about rankings, which in my view are entirely fatuous [sorry], City was indeed ranked something like 23rd. Moreover it was ranked 5th this year for graduate prospects by the Times Good University Guide. Hope that helps. Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:34:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35152 I am an ex-student of City University and to be honest, I don't have very pleasant memories of the time spend at City Univ. Indifferent management that is unresponsive to the complaints and grievances of students, average teaching quality and placement service cell, to put it mildly, not very helpful when you contact them. Moreover, they are also pretty indifferent to the suggestions and feedback of alumini. So unlike the gentleman ‘Ollyll’ who is at presently studying at City, I am afraid I would not be as enthusiastic about recommending City Univ. You would be wasting both your time and money at that place. Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:42:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35180 Wait, so the US JD is precieved to be better in comparison to other law degrees? There could be a debate on this either way, but in general. Which is happening, are more people coming to the US for a JD or are more US people going to other countries to practice law?? Is there a trend, if so what is the cause of this trend? Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:21:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35228 Ok, quick question. Does anyone know the reputations of these following schools?? Quenn Mary, external program for the graduate LLB University of Leeds, 2 year LLB University of Kent, 2 year LLB and finally the University of Aberdeen 2 year LLB I just don't know anything about these colleges, any information would be great. Thanks again for all the help!!! Thu, 13 Sep 2007 05:14:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35233 USAN'UK: It may be a little perverse to say that you are lucky to discover how complex a law career can be before actually applying to law school, but here's another consideration for you anyway. The QLTT, if you have not already discovered it, is the "Qualified Lawyers Transfer Test" (or something like that), but the basic idea is that after a certain time in practice in a foreign jurisdiction (e.g., 5 years), a lawyer is able to sit the QLTT and qualify in, for example, the U.K. Other members of the board may be able to correct me if I am mistaken or may add their expertise. As an American law student, I really don't know how the U.S. J.D. is perceived in the U.K. or how successful Americans are applying to U.K. firms. I do know that if you go to an ABA school in the U.S., you can sit any U.S. bar exam. If I had serious concerns about Americans getting a job in the U.K, then I would be inclined to take the QLTT. The best advice I could give you would be to apply to 2 and 3 year programs in the U.K. and the U.S. and just take your best option at the time. If you get into Harvard but for some reason don't manage much success with your U.K. applications (I can't imagine that circumstance would actually confront anyone), then I think most people wouldn't really have too tough a decision to just do the 3 year Harvard program. Finally, from an American perspective, I would say: 1. Aberdeen 2. Leeds 3. Kent and finally, because you say you want to do Queen Mary's External Programme: 4. Queen Mary. Otherwise, I might put the "non-External Programme" at Queen Mary second on that list, which I admit to basing purely on name recognition. Good luck! P.Martini Wed, 19 Sep 2007 18:11:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35378 Hello all, I'm new to this site. I am an America student. I'm about to graduate with my US Bachelor's degree. I am looking into law s chools in the UK with the idea of eventually practicing law in the UK. I am looking at the University City College of London. My concern is that if I go to the UK take the two year course in the Gradaute Entry LLB, and then either the BVC or the LPC, that I won't be able to secure pupalige, or a sponsorship from a UK law firm. With the immigration requirements being as they are, I don't want to go over there only to come back to the States to have to go to more school just to take the Bar, say in D.C. I realize this site is concerning LLM programs. But I wasn't sure where else to turn to. Any suggestions would be very helpful. Thanks for the time! I wonder how well you thought this through and understand all of the issues involved. Based on your posting I am assuming that you do not hold citizenship in the UK? Since you would be entering as an international student you would have to apply to the program now and then to the Home Office for a student visa. The student visa as I understand it only allows you to work 20 hours during school and upto 40 once you are out. Plus it is good only for up to two years with you having to reapply before it expires. Schools do differentiate between UK / EU students and foreign students. You would be charged international rates from the school which varies but would be somewhere in excess of $16,000 / year for tuitition excluding living arrangements. Once you get your degree from your US school you can submit it to the Law Society and if they accept it you can be given acadmeic standing which would allow you to take the one year full time graduate diploma in law instead of the three year LLB. I would suspect based on what it costs the UK student to take the graduate diploma in law your costs would be in excess of $24,000 for tuition. Have you calculated the cost of living for either program? Remember the pound is $2 for every £1 and living in the UK would be quite expensive for you. I suspect pupilege and training as a solicitor once you complete your vocation studies would fall under the definition work since you are employed by the firm which means you would need to secure a work permit. My guess is that getting a work permit to train as a solicitor would be almost impossible to get as there are many qualified UK / EU citizens that could fill the role and make the Home Office unlikely to issue a work permit for it. My recommendation would be to contact the Home Office, website: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk for their contact information as you have at least two immigration questions, applying for a student visa, student visa restrictions, and if training as a solicitor or barrister after completing vocational training constitutes work. If it is considered work how likely is it that you would get a work permit to do it. If you did come to the UK to study I would prepare to study for the degree but be prepared not to have the visa extended to allow training as a solicitor or barrister. Mon, 24 Sep 2007 01:22:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35475 Check out the MA in Legal Studies at the University of Bristol. http://www.bristol.ac.uk/law/pgdegrees/taughtdegrees/llm-advanced-study/ma-legal-studies.html Fri, 05 Oct 2007 12:24:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35784 Let me tell you all one thing...particularly those who are coming out of India to do an LLM with the hope of starting an international career in law, that it is next to impossible to find jobs if you are not a candidate from European community member states in the legal sector. I was in a stable job in Mumbai, came out to internationalise my career, did LLM in Europe and came to UK to do PhD and also pass the solicitors exam with the hope of getting a job in UK or Europe but it is not possible. There is a covert racial discrimination against non-EC members. The immigration laws are also very tough and it is next to impossible to get work permits for LLMs etc. So think twice or as many times as you need to before you leave everyhting to come and do an LLM etc and before wasting your or your father's hard earned money. The opportunities in India are abundant and would get even better. LLM from these European and UK universities hardly count in job market unless u want to pursue an academic career but that too is ver discriminatory in its present form and unless of course just for the sake of staying in UK/Europe, you are prepared to anything. Sat, 06 Oct 2007 01:04:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35801 ayun_2000, I don't think it is racial discrimination, but about not being a European citizen. I am from Australia and did an LLM in the UK. On finishing my LLM, I had no choice but to return to Australia, which was clear from the conditions of my original visa. The fact is - and it is the same all around the world - that a student visa to do an LLM (or any other degree, whether in microbiology or basketweaving) is a STUDENT visa. It is not intended to be a work permit, except insofar as undertaking incidental work of not more than 20 hours per week to support your studies (eg in a Bar or Tesco). Also, as an LLM is an academic - and not a professional qualification - it is a misconception to think that it will guarantee red carpet treatment at a Magic Circle firm - or even a High Street firm at that. There is a glut of qualified law graduates in the UK, and no country's migration rules will prioritise a non-citizen for a job where there is a citizen who is adequately qualified. So, if you want to come and study for an LLM in the UK/Europe, do it with the very clear understanding that you are only here to get the LLM - if you want anything else, it is a separate process entirely, and prob not possible on a student visa. That said, Scotland has a scheme for overeas graduates in any discipline from Scottish institutions (and remember Scotland is a distinct legal system from England) to remain for two years after graduation. Sat, 06 Oct 2007 12:34:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35810 I also did QLTT with this hope and sort of assurance from many of the firms and also job agents that doing so is the first entry point to get into a firm. But having done that I realised that is not the case. The selection process is based first on your nationality, race and then contacts and may be then comes the degree etc. I am not so sure how beneficial QLTT would be for India either. All this hype around QLTT promoted by Law Society, according to me, is merely to cash in this craze for getting foreign degrees and also a joint promotion to open the legal sector in India again with this spin that it is beneficial for India which will never be the case. And that is exactly the mentality of most of these foreign insttutions offering LLM. LLM degress are cash cows for them where they milk the foreign students particulalry those from Asian countries with no real scope in the job market. I dont know about the US degrees but I am sure of European and UK degrees; of course you must keep out Universities like Cambridge, Oxford, Queen Mary and LSE from this trend but others are mostly run as money making machines and seen as a very good aspect of the respective economy. Think you are spending your money to support their economy. So far so so good. But what do you get in return-a mere degree with no international job prospect? I know so many Indians who did their LLMs from these little or not so well known Institutions spending substantial sums and returned to India after trying to find job and landing up in menial jobs in hotels etc and even back in India they either landed up in same job or struggled to make up for their lack of India experience. Believe me, law is still a very regional subject, a very culturally entrenched profession. These firms have a very discriminatory selection process. Based ont the same qualification they will take Australians, even Candians but rarely Indians. The few Indians that you may come across are rarely Indians from India but they are British Indians. And this is also becasue they want to push the India practice and want to lliberalise the market so they are putting up Indian faces in their firms. But earlier it was equally discriminatory against even British Indians who were culturally integrated with British society. They have same attitude towards Africans-even British Africans. Recently there was this minority legal practiioners report which did a survey and found that the law firms rarely employ Africans. Yes tomorrow if they found that in Nigeria there is a gold mine and they want to do legal business there they may start emplying nigerians but not before that. These firms see Indian market as a gold mine and thus are so ebnt upon to lobby the government to liberalise the market, conduct QLTT in Mumbai and Delhi, recruit penultimate year students from NLSU and give them training contracts but do they have a similar open policy for other Indian expereinced qualified lawyers? NO. So the moot question-Is there a benefit doing an LLM form these European Universities-depends on what one wants to do: If searching for jobs-forget it unless oyu are from Cambridge, LSE or Oxford and few others but that is also not that forthcoming. Want to go back to India-may be companies would give you some crdit for your foreign degree but not so much.QLTT-absolutely not UNLESS- you come with huge business and political contacts in India to provide enough business for law firms. Certainly not if dont have them and think that your talent and experience and LLM degree would give you a good job. Sat, 06 Oct 2007 12:39:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35812 The selection process is based first on your nationality, race and then contacts and may be then comes the degree etc. I think you cannot generalize things like that. All major law firms have a clear policy not to discriminate applicants on the basis of nationality or race. Their clients are from all over the world, so it would hardly make sense not to hire well qualified lawyers from other countries. It may be true that getting a law firm job in the UK may not be easier if you have done your first degree in law abroad, but that will be the same in any country of the world. There are many examples of Indian lawyers who ended up in major UK law firms after finishing their LLM or LLB in the UK. http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/graduateDestinations/graduateProfiles/vinodGeorgeJoseph.htm http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/graduateDestinations/graduateProfiles/sunandoMukerjee.htm India is too important as a market for the big law firms to ignore Indian graduates: http://www.law.com/jsp/llf/PubArticleLLF.jsp?id=1184576794517 Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:11:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35813 Yes they are taking Indians because of two prime reasons-one, they want Indian faces in their firm for the Indian practice group in sectors like M&A and finance; two, because by doing the first they can lobby for the liberalisation of Indian legal market. Did they have same policy earlier towards Indians even for British Indians?Do they have similar recruitment trend towards Africans or Arbas or Muslims or even Pakistanis or Bangldeshis or Srilankans?Do they have similar recruitment for Indian lawyers specialising in other sectors such as Media or IP laws?Will they have similar recruitement and retention policy if tomorrow Indian economy suffers a recession?Did they have similar recruitment trend in past towards Indian lawyers? Probably answer to all these questions is NO. The examples you have cited are indeed good and congratualtions to them. And surely no firm or organisation will ever put out a policy stating that they would discriminate based on Nationality, race etc-legally they cant. Surely you will not find such policies stuck out on the notice board of the firms or on their websites. But such discriminatory practice exist-in a very covert, subtly visible and deeply entrenched manner which few of those who have made it, try to cover up by citing the examples as you have cited. The question is very simple do these law firms are as open, non-discriminatory, unbiased, democratic as they pretend to be and they want the other legal markets to be? And second question is whether doing an LLM from these not so well known institutions, excluding the well knowns such as LSE, Oxford, Cambridge, Queen Mary and may be few others-worthwhile for getting jobs in these law firms?In all probabilities NOT. Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:15:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35815 It sounds to me like there is a lot of mis-information being circulated about what an LLM is. An LLM is NOT a professional qualification, and should never be done with a view to it being a quick entry point to the UK job market (or any other job market). An LLM is an opportunity to deepen one's academic understanding of the law, and if you are an overseas student, to have the opportunity to experience tertiary education (and different academic experts) abroad. Further, entry clearance to the UK to undertake an LLM is very clearly provided on the basis that the recipient of the visa will not remain in the UK after obtaining the qualification (except if you graduate from a Scottish institution, but re-qualifying in Scots law is three years of pain, even if you are English, and beyond the 2 year work in Scotland scheme). If you want to practice in the UK, you will need to do the QLTT, and find work/obtain a work permit BEFORE arriving. This therefore may mean returning home and applying for positions from your home country after an LLM - work experience is probably more valuable than an LLM is this respect. As for the Australians and Canadians who get work, the vast majority do this via an ancestry visa, which allows persons (of any nationality) who have one British grandparent to work in the UK. In my case, I have one parent who qualifies, but I myself am stuffed (as all my grandparents are Australian). That said, the UK is more generous than most other countries - such as Australia, NZ, Canada, US (and India??) - that don't have ancestry visas and therefore I do not believe the process to be racist in the way that you allege. It is simply the reality that as a matter of law, these firms must employ locals (of whom there are thousands looking for work) before employing someone who requires a work permit, unless that person has specific skills, which to be absolutely honest, won't come from an LLM. Sat, 06 Oct 2007 15:41:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35818 Thats very good. Most people are aware that a basic law degree is suffcient professional qualification[LL.B/JD] in their respective home countries to practice law in their home countries and to enahnce academic knowledge most of the countries have Unis providing LL.M. People who set out to do LLMs outside their home countries, dont do so to gain academic knowledge unless they are doing it from some of the top most universities. The purpose of doing LLMs outside the home country is not to gain academic knowledge, the purpose is clearly to internationalise one's career and by 'internationalise', I mean in the job market-law firms and other organistions and not merely to hang the certificate on the wal of your home country. And look at the various brochures and websites of these Institutions providing LLMs, they claim they provide and open the job markets. People are well aware of the immigration requirements as they are set out clearly in the brochures but what these websites and brochures do not state or keep mum about is the real posibilities of the job market after doing LLM. Most of these brochures and website cite the steps or the positions the students have taken, which are not necessarily due to LLM as most go back to do what they were doing after having not found work. These websites and brochures also donot clarify the possible opportunities of an academic career after LLM as surely masters is a step towards a better academic understanding and career. Most of these institutions give an impression of heaven full of opportunities after LLM which is not the case and certainly do not give any clarification about the prospects of professional life. What clarification the last blogger has provided should be stated in the brochures more clearly and categorically in the websites and brochures of these institutions as a matter of fair practice in this trade becasue that is what these LLMs are basically not an avenue of an academic enlightment but places of monetary expenditure to get an LLM from institutions who treat the overseas students as money making machines without any prospect in the law firms. The last blogger has not answered to the issues that I have raised about the recruitment procedure for african or muslim or similar people from minority groups. Therefore intake in these firms are governed not on the basis of calibre, knowledge and talent but on the basis of nationality, race and ancestry. Tell me why Australians or Candians [even with all that ancestry debate] are to be preferred over British- africans or muslims or even Indians. I have already stated the reason for recruiting Indians these days in the last entry. Sat, 06 Oct 2007 19:08:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#35822 Firstly I think it is really naive to suggest that Australians or Candians are given preference over British Africans/Muslims/Indians and would like you to prove that statement. Secondly the LLM is an academic qualification. Obviously people want to achieve something at the end of it but it isn't the fault of the institutions in question if that aim is completely unrealistic, most law firms paint a picture of an amazing social life and shiny buildings and don't point out that you will have to work 70 hours a week and your office won't be quite as shiny as the reception yet we don't suggest that they should have told us that. My experience has been that the best students of any nationality tend to be sucessful in what the aim to achieve from an LLM. I don't think that firms are in any way sacrificing quality. I do concede that those who are second rate will invariably be overlooked with preference given to a national of the country in question. In essence if the only institutions you get accepted to are ranked 100-104 in the league tables whether British or any other nationality you will struggle to get a job. Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:19:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#36302 So if I'm getting this correctly, basically, go overseas do whatever degree I would and then basically be prepared to return home. Due to the fact that the immigrants laws are as wuch to provide jobs for citizens of the UK and EU prior to non citizens. Is this correct???? I appreciate everyone's responses and have taken them all into consideration. But I do however have a few more questions. Is it possible for me to undertake an internship at a UK law firm being a US citizens with my bachelor's degree, prior to entering law school. I would like to complete an internship over this summer preferably, if that is possible. I have applied to several law schools in the UK: 1. University of Aberdeen 2. Cambridge 3. Queen Mary 4. University of Kent 5. University of Birminham Most of these programs were 2 year LLB courses. Meaning, I'll receive my LLB in 2 years instead of the usual 3, and then if possible try to get sponsorship, again if possible to obtain either my BVC or LPC. Any thaughts, questions, comments? Am I completely naive, or crazy? Thu, 01 Nov 2007 10:02:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#36310 Im currently doing a Graduate LLB Course - this is the University of London external degree in Singapore which is probably why I am in this predicament. I intend to either do my Bar or the LPC in the UK and continue to work there. Is this an impossibility for a foreigner? I know this has nothing to do with the LLM but there may be members on this forum who have may have some advice. Fri, 02 Nov 2007 20:07:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#36350 So if I'm getting this correctly, basically, go overseas do whatever degree I would and then basically be prepared to return home. Due to the fact that the immigrants laws are as wuch to provide jobs for citizens of the UK and EU prior to non citizens. Is this correct???? I appreciate everyone's responses and have taken them all into consideration. But I do however have a few more questions. Is it possible for me to undertake an internship at a UK law firm being a US citizens with my bachelor's degree, prior to entering law school. I would like to complete an internship over this summer preferably, if that is possible. I have applied to several law schools in the UK: 1. University of Aberdeen 2. Cambridge 3. Queen Mary 4. University of Kent 5. University of Birminham Most of these programs were 2 year LLB courses. Meaning, I'll receive my LLB in 2 years instead of the usual 3, and then if possible try to get sponsorship, again if possible to obtain either my BVC or LPC. Any thaughts, questions, comments? Am I completely naive, or crazy? Students doing summer placements tend to do it between year 2 and 3 of their law degree. This means they have some knowledge of legal terminology. I suspect however that a non-law graduate who intended to convert and then do the LPC would not be automatically refused provided they had the appropirate academic background. I think this means you have two choices ( assuming you go ahead):- 1. wait til end of year 1 and apply for placements for that summer on the basis that at that point you will have some of the vocabulary sorted and be more equivalent to students who are at the end of year 2 of the LLM; or 2. try now. In any event but particularly in the latter case, you might want to think wider than just the obvious gargantuan magic circle firms - there are some good smaller/specialist firms which could give you good experience. Look at a law directory, such as Chambers or the Legal 500 for ideas. The wider you spread your net, the more likely you are to come up with anything. A final word: summer placements seem to me to be a hugely important factor in the overall recruitment process for many firms if you're hoping to stay in the UK for a bit. Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:19:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#48122 now i am a little confused. i'm an american applying to LLB courses in the UK with the hope that i can eventually practice in the UK after its completion, and/or also get an LLM (maybe in the USA) to be able to sit for the bar in both the UK and the USA. i realize that in the UK immigration laws and such are strict, but i was under the impression if one has a solid degree and good grades in a course that one could be hired by a law firm in the UK after one's education. it seems that some people have implied there is covert racial discrimination against ethnic non Europeans and also against non citizens, and that it is pretty much impossible to get a job in the UK after finishing school. is this true? could someone comment on this and try and answer some of the issues around my question? Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:39:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#48672 I read about your profile on the blog. I wanted to take some advice from you regarding my career.I would really appreciate, if you would take your time out to respond to this email. I have completed my graduation from India (Jai hind college, mumbai) and I am planning to do LLb from the Uk. I have gotten into Kings college, London and have got few queries to clear from an Indian living in the UK. Being an international student, I do not have enough knowledge on the job prospects after this degree, so what would be your take on this? Secondly, I have thought that after completing my LLb from kings, I would take an LPc course to become a solicitor. Now do you think It would be feasible for me to spend so much at a strech, and expect an impressive return? Thirdly, After completing my studies, say after starting a professional life, If I have to return to my country then would I be getting jobs in the law firms? Also, I have enquired that the jurisdiction of India and the Uk is almost similar, so does it makes easier for the Indian students to work in both the countries? Few of my friends are telling me that I should do LLb from India and take the masters degree from the UK, work there for few years and come back to India. I am in two minds because I have gotten into such a great college which supposedly offers a promising future and the quality of education is far better than any of the Indian institutes. Secondly, the cost of education in India is one-tenth of the cost of education in London, so sometimes I feel that India is a better option in terms of costs and returns. I await your response and hope that your advise would help me to choose the best career option. Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:31:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/35097/last#48686 So if I'm getting this correctly, basically, go overseas do whatever degree I would and then basically be prepared to return home. Due to the fact that the immigrants laws are as wuch to provide jobs for citizens of the UK and EU prior to non citizens. Is this correct???? I appreciate everyone's responses and have taken them all into consideration. But I do however have a few more questions. Is it possible for me to undertake an internship at a UK law firm being a US citizens with my bachelor's degree, prior to entering law school. I would like to complete an internship over this summer preferably, if that is possible. I have applied to several law schools in the UK: 1. University of Aberdeen 2. Cambridge 3. Queen Mary 4. University of Kent 5. University of Birminham Most of these programs were 2 year LLB courses. Meaning, I'll receive my LLB in 2 years instead of the usual 3, and then if possible try to get sponsorship, again if possible to obtain either my BVC or LPC. Any thaughts, questions, comments? Am I completely naive, or crazy? Regarding UK law schools ranking, check out this link: http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/gug/gooduniversityguide.php?AC_sub=Law&sub=21&x=29&y=10 You should seriously consider LSE, KCL and UCL as well. When it comes to getting a job in the UK for international students after graduation, I do not pretend to know much about this issue. However, it may be easier to get a job in the UK if you have a common law background rather than a civli law background.