http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894 en Rank the London Big 3 - LLM GUIDE Discussion Board Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:31:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#38894 Hey everyone, I have offers from all the "Big 3" and am waiting on Oxford. How would you rank the schools? I spoke with a partners from international law firms and academics, and while a couple initially said 1) LSE 2)UCL and 3) King's... i'm not so sure anymore. ANyway that was my initial post. After some extensive research, looking on these forums and thinking bout it, I tend to now disagree. I have asked more lawyers and academics and it is between UCL and LSE... UCL being preferred for various reasons. I change my mind a lot. My ranking before I applied was always 1) UCL 2) LSE and 3) King's. Back to that! :-) Might change again, but, for sure, UCL and LSE and the top schools in London. What do you all think? Thanks, and good luck with the applications! Mon, 21 Jan 2008 18:04:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#38898 fully agree Mon, 21 Jan 2008 22:44:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#38908 I agree, based on advice from academics. Tue, 22 Jan 2008 05:02:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#38921 I am associate attorney at Baker & McKenzie and definitely chose UCL for my LL.M... although LSE has certainly done a great job marketing itself as the top uni in London and thus it is in the "top of mind" of many employers....... Tue, 22 Jan 2008 05:36:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#38923 Thanks villy, but I read your previous posts re when you applied to LSE last year and was put on the waiting list until July, you seemed quite anxious... did you apply to UCL last year as well? Were you given a place at the LSE? I guess that's the hard thing about this forum, which is why I waited until I got offers from all before I made a decision. Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:50:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#38928 Mmmm actually I applied to both UCL and LSE for the 2007-2008 academic year... while waiting for a response I got a job offer as associate attorney at Baker & McKenzie..... so..... I took the job and made a request for deferral at UCL which they accepted.......... LSE doesn't do that.... that is one of the other reasons why I'm going to UCL....... Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:09:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#38955 For London, it is UCL or LSE, as you wish, though I have said that I think that at UCL the big names are more likely to actually teach the course. King's is very good, but not quite in the same league. Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:39:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39026 now i'm getting advice from other partners and academics that UCL is the place to be... and I would actually now agree based on research output etc. At least it was always between UCL and LSE. Its a really hard decision. Thu, 24 Jan 2008 03:02:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39031 been to both lse and ucl and found lse teaching much higher level personally...although lse charge a lot more money, you have more personal contact with good teachers and it is better known internationally overall, not just for law (which is important since many of their law subjects incorporate other diciplines like economics or anthropology/). like some of my other friends, i initially got rejected at lse but built up my cv and finally got in. Thu, 24 Jan 2008 03:05:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39032 also one more thing! one issue which i think ucl needs to improve on is how they inform their students about who is on the course teaching. many people listed on their website either doesnt actually teach much (maybe a week or 2) or infact left ucl but remains on website!!! lse all the way! Thu, 24 Jan 2008 03:10:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39033 hi, i agree with the above. lse is a better school and it is better known internationally. Acadamics like Professor Greenwood and Conar Gearty are amazing. went to ucl to do a Masters last year and they spent most of the lectures quoting lse academics!!!! 1. LSE 2. KINGS 3. UCL Thu, 24 Jan 2008 03:21:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39034 thanks for your thoughts. LSE is a good school and they have some nice public lectures. last year i got to see Alan Greenspan, Benazir Bhutto amongst others in lectures there!! i know a over the years they have had likes of KofI Anann, Bill Clinton and Nelsen Mandella speak there too. Howeverthey can be a bit snobby. They charge more than the other universities- and also are no longer part of University of London LLM unlike the others (not sure about ucl but i know the year i did it they were part of Uof L LLM). My views: 1.LSE 2. Kings 3. SOAS 4. UCL Thu, 24 Jan 2008 03:38:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39036 wow - ok, lse then! i think that is clear - everyone says the same thing! Thu, 24 Jan 2008 11:39:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39051 People will always have their own opinion on this matter. There isn't much difference between UCL, LSE and KCL imo. You have Oxford and Cambridge at the top and then UCL, LSE and KCL more or less form the big three after them. When picking which Uni to go to I think one should pick based on the course they want to do. So for example there is no point in going to LSE for international law if UCL is better at it. (Now I don't know whether or not LSE/UCL even teaches international law, im just giving an example). Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:51:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39059 There is no longer an intercollegiate llm at university of London. All colleges now run their own degrees. I have been to both UCL and LSE. I really do not think there is a profound difference between them, in terms of teaching quality, research output, etc. Troyman said that the UCL lecturers quoted those from the LSE. I had the opposite experience: the LSE people quoted the people at UCL!!! Personally I found UCL better. I did find that a number of names at the LSE were unavailable on my courses, most of the time... Sat, 26 Jan 2008 15:51:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39163 It's a bit pointless analysing the 'rankings' of these three colleges until a good few years have gone by, and more marked differences from the old intercollegiate programme emerge. But... on the quality of teaching alone, I found UCL and KCL miles ahead of LSE (which was a surprise to me at the time!). But these experiences/opinions change on almost a yearly basis as faculty members move around or move on etc. In terms of law firms and recognition etc. having a LLM degree from one particular UoL college, rather than another, doesn't make any tangible difference at all, unless the employer is interested in a particular speciality that one of the colleges may excel at. Completely agree with asc's comments. Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:11:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39174 people have pwn voews about this so no point in too much argument about it. however one thing is true, lse is better known internationally in my experience. when i when to america last year i struggled to meet people who knew what ucl or kcl are...they all seemed to know about lse! personal opinion: 1. LSE. 2. SOAS 3. KINGS I didnt get into lse but got into SOAS and UCL. hope to re- apply next year for lse!!! Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:07:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39190 Hi, I know this is a bit irrelevant, but can you can you give me an insider on SOAS entry requirements! I mean does good professional experience count? Can it replace poor grades(no honours)? Or will it be impossible to get in? Thx ! Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:43:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39283 Hey, I am in the same position as a lot of you with offers from all three. Anyone know which is the best for finance/business law? Decisions, decisions... Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:49:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39836 my GPA is 3.50 out of 4.00 and i have no idea is it enough to apply for King's or LSE... could anybody enlighten me on this topic?? Thu, 07 Feb 2008 17:27:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39843 From what I understand of the conversion between the 4-point scale and the U.K. scale, it isn't so much your raw G.P.A. score that matters but your overall class rank; if a 3.5 places you in the upper 10% of your class, then you're right in there. If for some reason a 3.5 was the average score at your law school (admittedly unlikely), then your chances are somewhat weaker, and your school was decidedly odd. Someone more knowledgable than myself would have to comment on what approximate class rank the Big 3 are looking for, however. Would it be fair to say top 15%? Fri, 08 Feb 2008 13:53:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39922 Hi, What concerns the rankings - UCL stands above LSE and way above Kings most of the time. One of the examples: http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/2007/overall_rankings/top_100_universities/ JS Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:04:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#39955 According to this ranking, Imperial College should be your first choice in London (BTW: Imperial does not have a law faculty). What I want to say is that I would not base my decision on general worldwide university rankings. Apart from that, the QS "ranking" you linked to does not even provide their methodology. The only respected worldwide ranking that I know is the one by the Institute of Higher Education, Shanghai Jiao Tong University: http://www.arwu.org/rank/2007/ARWU2007_Top100.htm Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:35:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#40000 Russ, you say that this ranking you cite is the only respected one you know. Thanks for the link, which was interesting. But, in this ranking UCL is at 25 worldwide, and the LSE does not make the top 100! While I personally think UCL is well above the LSE, having been to both, the fact that Nottingham makes the top 100 list but the LSE does not, just can't be right. (?) Or maybe law is only one factor of many in their calculations, so this list is also misleading, something you criticised the others for... Sun, 10 Feb 2008 00:34:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#40013 Or maybe law is only one factor of many in their calculations, so this list is also misleading, something you criticised the others for... Exactly. That's why I said that that I would not base my decision on a general worldwide university ranking. As you will probably know there are two important rankings of UK law schools. The one by the Times and the other one by the Guardian: http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/gug/gooduniversityguide.php?AC_sub=Law&sub=21&x=37&y=7 http://browse.guardian.co.uk/education?SearchBySubject=&FirstRow=0&SortOrderDirection=&SortOrderColumn=&Subject=Law&Institution=&Tariff=6 Both have their weaknesses. The current Times ranking has been criticized by many for placing Aberdeen ahead of Oxford. No matter how much relevance you give to these rankings, one thing they show is that there is not much difference between LSE, UCL and KCL as far as the quallty of their law faculty is concerned. If I were to choose among these three, I would first look at the professors in the area of law I want to specialize in (e.g. competition law > Prof. Richard Whish > KCL). Secondly, I would take into account the reputation of the UoL colleges in my country (US/Canada > LSE; France/Germany > KCL; UK/Ireland > UCL). Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:35:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/38894/last#40373 too simplicitic to say US/ Canada - LSE and UK- UCL.... Infact lse in also very popular and desirable in UK and they get more applications for each place on their LLM than UCL (lse gets 13 applications for every spot and it is also more expensive than)....in US the two schools are not even compared usually because many people have not even heard of UCL and they have almost always heard of Oxbridge and LSE....for some people...that extra edge of a reputation is very important! You have been to both schools and suggest ucl is better but others have been to both and suggest lse is a lot better....so it proves that this is a pointless and subjective exercise...what is true however is that lse had a better reputation than ucl overall (taking into account abroad rep as well as home rep)....Also many people dont know this but lse has a new law department building opening next year (2008)...a new building with state of the art lecture rooms and it is suppose be amazing!! I went to LSE last week and I got to hear US Supreme Court judge Justice Scalia speak - it was great opportunity to listen to him and fire questions...really got the impression that thibngs are happening at that university¬!