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LL.M. US job market is dead...

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Rej

Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 62
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Wed Mar 12, 2008 06:25 PM
As you can read... given the crisis almost every Law Firm has closed positions. Compared to past years the percentage of foreign trained lawyers getting an offer is really, really small... You might want to rethink if coming to the US this year is worth the work...
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Mr.Who?

Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 13
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Wed Mar 12, 2008 06:39 PM
are you currently a L.L.M student? ......who told you this?
I really want to stay a year after my llm next year for an internship.....will this improve?
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dynamo

Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 34
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Wed Mar 12, 2008 06:47 PM
As you can read... given the crisis almost every Law Firm has closed positions. Compared to past years the percentage of foreign trained lawyers getting an offer is really, really small... You might want to rethink if coming to the US this year is worth the work...


I am no expert but hopefully with the coming US elections...things would look brighter.

beside, i believe that if you are "good" enough you will find a place eventually.

:-)
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Rej

Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 62
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Wed Mar 12, 2008 06:51 PM
I am finishing my JSD and can tell you that compared to other years the market sucks... top LL.M. students were unable to get offers... Things might change after elections (or not)... I just wanted everybody to know that every year that passes is harder to get offers...
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baffronz

Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 49
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Wed Mar 12, 2008 07:49 PM
Duh.

But people from top foreign schools and good US LLM programs will still get jobs. It's people like me (sub T20 law school, good LLM) who are srewed.
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LinkedS

Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 78
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Wed Mar 12, 2008 07:57 PM
As you can read... given the crisis almost every Law Firm has closed positions. Compared to past years the percentage of foreign trained lawyers getting an offer is really, really small... You might want to rethink if coming to the US this year is worth the work...


Dead? Far from it

As alive as its ever been? I would agree

If you work hard, you can find a job that will keep you satisfied.

Nobody I know is homeless at the moment with their LL.M degree
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Rej

Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 62
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Wed Mar 12, 2008 08:30 PM
I am not speaking of T20 schools... I know a lot of people here in Chicago, Columbia, and ever HLS who are having trouble in getting offers. I am not speaking people with an LL.M. Degree but those who are obtaining it next May/June... It is sure you will get a job but not that sure you will get it in the US. I am not happy about this but it is just the truth... it is really hard
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LinkedS

Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 78
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Wed Mar 12, 2008 09:04 PM
Then you may be looking in the wrong spots

Getting a job won't be "easy" but it is far, far from impossible even without the top grades

I know several middle-level % LLM's finding jobs in Chicago, New Orleans, Dallas, Miami, and D.C.

The market is slower but it is nowhere near "dead" or impossible within the US

You just may need to start a little lower than you originally thought
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EL80

Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 5
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Wed Mar 12, 2008 09:15 PM
I totally agree with LinkedS since I have the same experience!
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pratibha


Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 39
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Thu Mar 13, 2008 05:58 AM
Rej and LinkedS,

I think LLM means additional degree plus a US studentlife experience alongwith enhanced prospects for future.... So I am not sure how low should I expect the offers to be for a new LLM grad in US. I would be really glad if someone can point out the difference.

Thanks
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mnementh

Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 100
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:12 AM
.. I just wanted everybody to know that every year that passes is harder to get offers...


If every year is harder, then it's better to come next year than in 2-3-5 years, no ?
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Mr Easter

Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 39
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Thu Mar 13, 2008 09:41 PM
Dear all

I spoke to an alumn from my law school recently who just return from the US. He has been workning in the past 3 years as a corporate associate in a top US firm. He told me the work is drying up and most Aussie lawyers in the US are moving back, or going to other places like Asia, mid east. He said the storm is hitting most corporate practice areas such as PE, securitization & M&A. Litigation on the other hand has not been affected.

He doesn't know if this will translate to a drop in graduate (LLM JD) recruitment, but as one suspects, JD hiring from top 10 probabily wont get affected, but LLMs and JD second teirs might get screwed......BOOOOOO.....

Does anyone have thoughts on NON-Law Firm work? Banks, Consultancies? Or is everyone gunning for a top law firm job?
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marungu

Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 53
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Fri Mar 14, 2008 08:33 PM
Hey guys,

The market is virtually dead; Rej is right!
I just got my offer this week in an accounting firm, but the job search has been tough, and prospects are getting even dimmer.

Yes, if your main reason for coming to the US is to get a US job after the LL.M., you might want to give it a second thought!
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yasmin78

Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 19
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:34 PM
I am so sorry to read all these disappointing posts regarding LLM graduates finding a job. For God's sake guys stop sounding so depressed and stressful. I had to stop reading in here for few months before finally having the courage to apply for LLM. Something that I owe so some well established academic people in America. –
No where in the world finding a job is a piece of cake and definitely it is difficult in a high competitive markets such as in America, - I know English born , oxford PHD graduated who had to wait almost a year before finding a decent job- , for LLM degree it might be even tougher , So Whaaaaat?
Let's be a little bit Positive and Supporting. I doubt it if anyone with 10 JDs from any league university who approaches to a subject relating to his education and career as negative as many people in here could ever land a job let alone a one year LLM program graduate!
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baffronz

Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 49
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:43 AM
I am so sorry to read all these disappointing posts regarding LLM graduates finding a job. For God's sake guys stop sounding so depressed and stressful. I had to stop reading in here for few months before finally having the courage to apply for LLM. Something that I owe so some well established academic people in America. –
No where in the world finding a job is a piece of cake and definitely it is difficult in a high competitive markets such as in America, - I know English born , oxford PHD graduated who had to wait almost a year before finding a decent job- , for LLM degree it might be even tougher , So Whaaaaat?
Let's be a little bit Positive and Supporting. I doubt it if anyone with 10 JDs from any league university who approaches to a subject relating to his education and career as negative as many people in here could ever land a job let alone a one year LLM program graduate!


So whaaaat?

Well, Yasmin, I'll tell you so what.

Not everyone has a year of their life, and $50,000, to waste on an investment which won't return dividends.

Perhaps you're wandering through life aimlessly, piling up debt, or having daddy foot the bill for your bad investments, but others don't have this luxury.
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Greg_08


Joined: 08 Jan 2000
Posts: 38
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:30 AM
This thread is right on the money. I actually spoke to some friends of mine working in the states for top law firms (i.e. Cleary, Simpson etc) and everyone is saying the same thing: "The job market for LLM's is virtually non existent". They all say that admittedly getting a job with an LLM a few years back was hard, due to the fact that firms prefer to hire JD's unless they need a foreign attorney for a specific reason, but according to them, right now it's 0% prospects of finding a job with an LLM. I was told that the only LLM's getting jobs in the US are Stanford (Especially the IP LLM), and that even Harvard LLM's are struggling and not getting any offers. What I was told is that a JD from a top 15 school have 90% of finding a job, while LLM's have virtually no way to get hired (Visa problems, Language, only 1 year of US law school, mentality etc) unless it's the Stanford IP graduates. Anyways, I got in to 4 top 10 schools (NOT YLS AND NOT SLS) and I didn't get any funding, so for me 50K's for tuition and additional 25K for living cost is to much....I have no idea what to do:(

[Edited by Greg_08 on 15 Mar 2008]
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yasmin78

Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 19
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:31 AM


So whaaaat?

Well, Yasmin, I'll tell you so what.

Not everyone has a year of their life, and $50,000, to waste on an investment which won't return dividends.

Perhaps you're wandering through life aimlessly, piling up debt, or having daddy foot the bill for your bad investments, but others don't have this luxury.



Hey baffronz , your evaluation of picturing me an aimless, blond head-daddy's girl wandering through life is so pointless, only because I expected the LLM public forum to be a little bit more positive. As I admitted before I have no doubt that we can not find a job within a week to pay for our tuition fee after a year but I do believe that it is Possible to Find a Job. Why should anyone expect that within a year of being in a foreign country their life should totally turn upside down for better? ofcourse it would be difficult and many expenses need to be covered for a period of time. However, this one year program can open few doors for better. I am not saying that you may have/know one, but there are successful stories that need to be said and heard in here as well.
After all , I wish this forum could have been more informative and encouraging and would have let me know something about the bright side of a one year Post Graduate degree in America.

[Edited by yasmin78 on 15 Mar 2008]
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bob808

Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 11
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Sun Mar 16, 2008 04:11 AM
yasmin, no one is saying the llm degre is worthless - it could still provide opportunities in international organisations / academia
BUT if you want to work for a big law firm in corporate finance - it used to be possible (albeit really hard) to find a job with an llm. now wtih the recession the whole area has pretty much dried up, so firms dont need to hire more people since there's not that much work to do - so there's v. little need for llms
things could change next year - but it's hard to tell...
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mnementh

Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 100
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:52 AM
I'll just add that there is no recession in the U.S. The situation is not good, but recession is an economic term, much like many legal terms, and there is simply no recession in the U.S. Maybe there will be very soon, but currently there isn't.
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Greg_08


Joined: 08 Jan 2000
Posts: 38
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:02 PM
It's a "snowball affect" at its finest. The USD$ is an slump because of the Sub-Prime interest rates on loans in the U.S, Everybody is waiting for recession to come next and in order to prepare for it start cutting back on expenses and hold all business activities for a while to see what happens next. This triggers a process called Stagflation - in layman terms it means a slowdown in the market, so basically it's a self proclaimed prophecy and because everyone is trying to prepare for recession they actually cause it. What it means for the legal market? The answer is simple: Cut-backs, Layoffs, No new recruitment and a general slow down in M&A and Corporate field.
So if you are an LLM applicant, looking for higher education, LLM is an amazing experience and it will give a huge amount of knowledge and fulfillment, but it will not and I repeat will most defenetly not get you a job. At least not in the next 3-4 years.
Best of luck

[Edited by Greg_08 on 16 Mar 2008]
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mnementh

Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 100
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:48 PM
Greg_08, I think you should study Economics/Business rather than Law per your excellent analysis... :)

I think the U.S economy is something hard to predict though, and the finest brains in the world can't give a definite answers about it. Some believe the crisis will be over very soon. Some think it's a bigger issue. I believe we should remember that American companies rule in the entire globe, so if U.S is down, pretty soon all the economic regimes in the world will be down. If you can't find a job in M&A in the U.S because of this, pretty soon there won't be any markets for M&A in Europe, Asia either !!

Greg_08, what are you planning to do?
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kobayashimaru

Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 18
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Sun Mar 16, 2008 01:01 PM
Greg_08

I agree with your post. I spoke with a friend working in a big law firm who says the problem is dire as most law firms think that the Fed reserve cannot control the situation( interest rate cuts and pumping in liquidity to the market is not solving the crisis)
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nriattorney

Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 235
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Sun Mar 16, 2008 01:56 PM
If Rej means "dead job market" for LL.M for securing a lucrative job in a big law firm with top of the line pay packet, he may be right.

However, in general the job market is certainly "not dead". I have spoken with several attorneyes in New York, Phili and Florida; my feed back is that you are on your own the day you clear bar exam of any one State in USA;

since one can legally stay in USA for one year after LL.M, the candidate is required to pass Bar Exam of any one of the States; once you are a licenced attorney, there is absolutely no dearth of work.

A friend (LL.M from CWRU) told me that by working for one year post-LL.M, he was able to recover all the expense incurred on LL.M.



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Greg_08


Joined: 08 Jan 2000
Posts: 38
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Sun Mar 16, 2008 02:12 PM
Hey mnementh and kobayashimaru:)
Thank you for the complements, I appreciate it.
Regarding my background, I'm 26 y/o, Israeli, LLB & MBA from Hebrew University.
I guess my plans will remain the same, just due to the fact that I don't perceive the LLM as a means to a job but as an education and experience. Another option would be to pursue a Doctoral studies and wait for a year to see what happens. Also, the election might change the situation, although I personally don't think it will.

What about you guys, what are your plans?
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dynamo

Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 34
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Sun Mar 16, 2008 05:27 PM
... but it will not and I repeat will most defenetly not get you a job. At least not in the next 3-4 years.


hehe --- I totally disagree.

"knowing" the right people would definitely get you with a job (with or w/o LLM).
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