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LL.M. US job market is dead...

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Greg_08


Joined: 05 Dec 2000
Posts: 38
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Sun Mar 16, 2008 05:55 PM
... but it will not and I repeat will most defenetly not get you a job. At least not in the next 3-4 years.


hehe --- I totally disagree.

"knowing" the right people would definitely get you with a job (with or w/o LLM).


Your argument is self contradictory. You agree with me that an LLM will not get you a job in the US.
If you say that knowing the "right" people will get you a job regardless of an LLM you don't contradict what I'm saying...

But it is funny though, Nice one:)

[Edited 16 Mar 2008 by Greg_08]
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dynamo

Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 34
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Sun Mar 16, 2008 06:09 PM

Your argument is self contradictory. You agree with me that an LLM will not get you a job in the US.
If you say that knowing the "right" people will get you a job regardless of an LLM you don't contradict what I'm saying...

But it is funny though, Nice one:)


I guess what I ment to say is that "knowing" the right people would probably help you get a job (regardless of the LLM).

For the sake of argument let's us (all) hope that LLM would actually help in a way (even the slightest) to find a job....

:-)

[Edited 16 Mar 2008 by dynamo]
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VA1993

Joined: 24 Dec 2006
Posts: 65
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Sun Mar 16, 2008 06:37 PM
Well though the recession might have hit the Big I-Banks and Financial accouting firms hard, the truth is- not much changes within a law firm. Dont jump the gun please! Per Amlaw- the legal job market has seen more 'movement' (≠ recession/ attrition) in the last 1 n 1/2 years than ever before in this decade. .

Bad news first- Now from day 1, it has been easier for the Stanford IPs and NYU Tax globals to land a job in their relevant fields and not much has changed in that regard. The real hit is to be absorbed by many like me enrolling for a General LLM (irrespective of how you structure it), and hunting in the dark. Yes, it is tough, but its always been so! Plus, the age old truth- "if you're good enough, you will get a job" holds strong and most of us here seem to believe it.

Good News- Much of the world seems to be moving away from the US and getting back home. There are great job opportunities all across asia and the middle east. I understand that europe and esp. the Uk are leading the P/E race (well ahead of US). So yes, while the American dream starts to look more gloomy, it is home where the action resides! (provided your LLM gets you a raise that can, at the minimum, cover your costs of the past 11 months)

Since much of this picture is painted "word of mouth", let us stay positive bout doing al LLM. Besides, many of us ARE good enough to land a job anywhere...albeit the visas, non-existent language concerns, work ex, etc..
Almost forgot - the elections!
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mar

Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 6
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Mon Mar 17, 2008 02:14 AM
I agree with some of you. This year it is very difficult for LLM's to get a job, however it is not impossible. I know several people (from Latin America) who have just gotten job offers with top NY law firms. The common traits among them are these: top 10 law school, they have worked in big law firms in their home country for about 2 to 4 years, they have great recommendations not only from partners of those law firms but also from big clients. They have corporate law experience and as I mentioned, they come from Latin America. I heard last year was the best for the LLM market, and even people who did not have the traits I mentioned, could land into great jobs. This year with the slow down in the economy, what matters is your previous job experience, the region you come from and the law school you chose for the LLM. Last but not least, persistance may also help you to find a job...

[Edited 17 Mar 2008 by mar]
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michalmas

Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 4
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Wed Mar 19, 2008 09:12 PM
Can anyone tell me why people really want to work in the US so badly ?

I really do not see anyone would want so much to work in the US. Although I would understand why 4-5 years ago, there is really no apparent reason now : the US dollar is not worth much anymore (and there is nothing suggesting it will get better anytime soon, so that means your hard earned money is not worth much when you travel or go back home), the US economy is in a very bad shape, all the leading U.S. banks have reported major losses, people are losing their jobs and even law firms in NY are firing associates (Clifford Chance, Cadwalader, etc.). So why would anyone in their right mind want so desperately to work in NY (unless of course you are American and your family is in the US) ?

If it is all about the money, again things are no longer what they were a few years ago. The highest you can hope to get in NY is 160k USD. Not bad at all, but you can get just as much, if not more, outside the US... I am British, I did an LLM in the US and I am now a first year associate in the U.K. and I get 185k USD (or 93k pounds) excluding annual bonus, which is far better than what I would have gotten had I accepted to stay in the U.S. Other of my former classmates who did not stay in the US are also earning more than they would have they stayed in the US, and do not regret their choice.

So really why do people want to stay so much in the US ?
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bob808

Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 11
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Wed Mar 19, 2008 09:45 PM
the situation may be different if you're from the uk - but for llms from other countries where there are not many us firms, or the firms don't pay the same salaries - it would make sense for them to want to benefit from ny salaries. there's also a certain prestige attached to having ny experience in other countries.
even if you're from the uk - it might still work out better to be in the us;
cost of living is still lower in ny
taxes are higher in the uk
but i think you're right in saying that uk lawyers don't need to be that eager to work in the us given the large presence of us firms in london but i just dont think this would necessarily apply to lawyers from other countries.
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michalmas

Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 4
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:55 PM
Yes, but right now, Asia and the Middle East are "very hot" and U.S. firms are hiring people there like crazy ! Some of my friends had terrific offers to work in Asia (Beijing, Hong Kong, etc.) or the Middle East (Dubai, Qatar, etc.) and I believe the cost of living and taxed there are much lower than in the U.S. !!! For Hong Kong for example, not only is his salary higher than NY, but on top of that, the firm pays for his accomodation ! And the cost of living and taxes are definitely lower than NY.... The same goes for Dubai or elsewhere in the Middle East.
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hannenyh


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 219
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:03 AM
Can anyone tell me why people really want to work in the US so badly ?

The highest you can hope to get in NY is 160k USD. Not bad at all, but you can get just as much, if not more, outside the US...
So really why do people want to stay so much in the US ?


First of all, salaries in NY firms have changed - and I believe they now keep it at $220k to be competitive.

Second of all, not all of us come from countries in which you can make even close to that kind of money with a big firm. For instance, I am from Norway where new associates in the "bigger" firms will get roughly $80k a year as a starting salary. Now take into consideration that Norway is considered one of the world's most expensive places to live and that we pay almost 50% tax, well then I see plenty of reasons for wanting to work in NY for a year or two after you finish your LLM.

I guess we could all just apply to jobs in London... but that foggy weather would pretty much drive me crazy.

--LLM grad on her way home after two years in the U.S.

Btw, the legal market (meaning bigger law firms) in Norway (and maybe more of Europe?) is kind of dead too from what I hear. Firms are not too eager to commit to hiring anyone right now... they are awaiting the economic situation I guess.

[Edited 20 Mar 2008 by hannenyh]
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michalmas

Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 4
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Thu Mar 20, 2008 01:29 PM
> First of all, salaries in NY firms have changed - and I
> believe they now keep it at $220k to be competitive.

I do not know where you pulled that figure from, but all the websites (law.com, abovethelaw, etc.) all state that it is still 160k, and my colleagues/friends working in top NY firms (Cravath, Cleary, etc.) all confirmed to me it is still 160k.
It looks like people want to work in NY more based on false rumours than real solid facts.
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hannenyh


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 219
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Thu Mar 20, 2008 05:55 PM
Well it doesn't really matter if it is $220 or $160, that wasn't really my point. $160 is still a hell of a lot more than I could ever make in Norway as an associate. I am sure this is the same for a lot of countries. I could even pay back my students loans way faster too. Which is very helpful for most of us. That gives me freedom in the future to take a job with less pay.

Being from England/having a job in England sure is good for you, but most people on this board have not studied in England, and are not from there, so it is hard to compare...

[Edited 20 Mar 2008 by hannenyh]
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mnementh

Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 100
LL.M. US job market is dead...
Thu Mar 20, 2008 07:40 PM
Yes, but right now, Asia and the Middle East are "very hot" and U.S. firms are hiring people there like crazy ! Some of my friends had terrific offers to work in Asia (Beijing, Hong Kong, etc.) or the Middle East (Dubai, Qatar, etc.) and I believe the cost of living and taxed there are much lower than in the U.S. !!! For Hong Kong for example, not only is his salary higher than NY, but on top of that, the firm pays for his accomodation ! And the cost of living and taxes are definitely lower than NY.... The same goes for Dubai or elsewhere in the Middle East.


But what does that mean really... can you be from one country and work in a different country ? Let's say X working in Hong Kong, and so on ? Or do you have to be Hong Kogian/Chinese? Or Qatarian/Arab and so on? Some come from countries where there are no such opportunies for high salary in their home country.
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