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Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell

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thomas1

Joined: 01 Apr 2008
Posts: 1
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Wed Apr 02, 2008 07:54 PM
Hey guys,

I am lost.
Got accepted to these fine schools and have no idea where to go. The thing is that I am not sure of what law field interests me the most. I intend to find my favorite law field during the LL.M. and then, hopefully, continue on to S.J.D.

Any suggestions?
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Sloan

Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 25
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:33 PM
I hope you're kidding...all three are fine schools, that's true, but they are on complete different levels.

My suggestion is: start by looking at rankings.

In case you are not a ranking fan, think about domestic and international prestige: any light ahead?

But, let's say you don't mind about rankings and prestige maybe you should consider the quality of the faculty...

If not even this factor helps you pull the trigger just consider how you entitled this thread: which law school you mention first?

[Edited 02 Apr 2008 by Sloan]
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MMend

Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 33
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Thu Apr 03, 2008 06:48 AM
"on complete different level.." actually I'm not so sure about that... , however, one's decision should be based not just on the ranking considerations, but also on his or her specific purposes and areas of concern. For instance, if you're interested in S.J.D., maybe you should allocate more weight in your contemplations to such factors as class size and possible interactions with senior faculty members...

Sloan, provided that you're still a "ranking whore" (sorry for the choice of words), don't forget the one published by Vault recently....
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Sloan

Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 25
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Thu Apr 03, 2008 08:37 AM
As suggested, I had a look at Vault rankings and I came to the conclusion that you are right: you should definitely choose UVA (#4) or UMichigan (#2) over Harvard (#6), Columbia(#7) or Yale (#10) for your LL.M./S.J.D. it is a very wise way to spend your money and invest in your future carreer.

Nonetheless, as I am not a ranking [...] - as you politely said - I will go the other way around.
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MMend

Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 33
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:14 AM
Sloan, please accept my apologies if the fact of being associated with the most oldest profesion on earth, as applicable to ranking, caused you an enormous amount of emotional distress. No offence was intended and...

Having said that, I do find in your post more the slightest inkling to a "ranking addiction" (in order to precipitate your next post please note that I'm not implying that you're a junky... so no pun intended). To the said fact, attest your following assertions:

"they [schools] are on complete different levels", "My suggestion is: start by looking at rankings", "In case you are not a ranking fan.. "(the latter implies, unmistakenly, that the author is a ranking fan).

By the way, I'm not so far from you in all this "whoreness"/"addictness"/funess" thing, however, I'm not dismissing as somewhat irrelevant the ranking provided by Vault in terms of "employability" of J.D.'s (don't forget) graduates...

Again, my deepest apologies...
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Luckiest

Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 5
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:26 PM
I was as well admitted to both Michigan and Columbia but it did not even crossed my mind to accept Michigan over Columbia (even though I think that Michigan is a great university!)
My problem right now is choosing between Columbia and Harvard...

[Edited 03 Apr 2008 by Luckiest]
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1905

Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 4
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:30 AM
Are you kidding me? I know Michigan and Cornell is good school.
First you gotta find right professor for your special subject.
think collectively...

If you dont have any special plan or particular professor,
for most of people...they will say..." of course Columbia !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "

[Edited 04 Apr 2008 by 1905]
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Timbaland

Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:13 AM
Of course Columbia!
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sammy_03

Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 5
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Mon Apr 07, 2008 08:37 AM
What's wrong with you guys! It seems that you are all crazy about some kind of NYU-Columbia-Harvard what ever else name thing.. Why "Columbia of course"?

Thomas, you should think better!

What is important to you - I am not that familiar with Cornell, but Columbia vs. Michigan is foremostly a completely different experience in terms of way of life, studying environment, atmosphere. You will get great education at both of them. You will participate in the same job fair. You will get the same level of prestige - Columbia may sound more familiar to general public, but to those who really matter, Michigan will sound as great. It's small program vs. big program (40 vs. 350 people class, more personalized attention, easy access to teachers vs. more mass way of teaching), campus school in a small though fun city vs. NYC (living in NYC may be important to you but on the other hand is honestly not for everyone plus it is super expensive) etc.

Let me know how you decided! I am curious.
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Timbaland

Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Mon Apr 07, 2008 09:58 AM
Sammy, no one is denying the quality of UMichigan, but when you are investing so much money you always try to get the best out of it and Columbia or Harvard are far better investments than UMichigan.
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sammy_03

Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 5
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:54 PM
I think you define it well - everyone is trying to "get the best out of it". But thinking that by you get the best at a school with higher ranking is sick.

I know a lot of graduates from different top LLM programs - and many graduates from your "better investments" schools who thought their LLM was in fact waste of time - just good for the resume - since they chose just by name not by what new the school can teach them or provide for them. And I know many people from "worse investments" schools (or whatever you would call it) that loved the school, loved the program, got a perfect job, got a close contact with their professors with whom they keep in touch and who afterwards helped them in their careers etc.

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Timbaland

Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 7
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Mon Apr 07, 2008 04:22 PM
It is much easier to land a job if you attended Columbia or Harvard also because those Law School are the best for networking (which counts 50% in the job searching process)
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tomass

Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 1
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Mon Apr 07, 2008 06:10 PM
Hi guys,

Thanks for the info. The truth is I still cannot decide between Columbia and Michigan. It seems that Columbia's Reputation is slightly stronger.
I dont know...
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MMend

Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 33
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Mon Apr 07, 2008 08:01 PM
Tomass, I've been offered admission for International Tax LL.M AT Michigan Law, and I've just been thinking maybe your should ask admitted students to both of this schools as regards what contemplations factored in their respective decisions…

As to Michigan I can't provide you with much info, for I'm in a very specialized program, however, I'm in constant contact with general LL.M.'s admitted students and if you wish, send me a personal message so I can arrange your communications….

But if anyway, you're interested in my opinion, I think, supposedly with a slightly skewed perspective :), that networking is much better at Michigan, because of its class size and more personal interactions with the faculty members…

From my perspective, I can say that in my program (tax, again) ALL, again ALL interested students from this year program, in the VERY midst of recession, were able to land great job at the most top notch law firms in NYC… :)
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Kimi1981

Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 3
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Mon Apr 07, 2008 09:54 PM
Hi tomass, I wasn't fortunate enough to get into Columbia nor Harvard so I am gonna pass for this year and try next year to get in one of these schools.
Nonetheless, if I had the chance of being at your place I would not have any doubt in choosing Columbia over UMichigan.
MMend is right when he is stating that the Tax program at UMichigan is very famous and prestigious (although not as much as NYU Tax Program), but as to the General LL.M. CLS is way beyond.
Anyway, the choice is yours and you should decide with your brain, good luck!
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Dumdedum

Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 22
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Tue Apr 08, 2008 05:16 PM
Even in tax, I would say that not only NYU, but Harvard, Georgetown obviously and others have better rep. In fact, Michigan is not in the U.S news' top 10 list of Tax even. CLS is better than Michigan in all fields.
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MMend

Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 33
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Tue Apr 08, 2008 06:07 PM
For Dumdedum...

It sounds strange for me, for I know that ALL, I'd say it again, ALL intrested students of this year (apart from one who chose to go to accounting firm) landed much coveted positions at most leading law firms in NYC, and that based on their grades from fall semester... so maybe hiring partners just don't know what they're doing, just maybe...

FYI, Michigan Tax is not listed on U.S. News 'cause it tailored for interenational students only...
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mnementh

Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 100
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Tue Apr 08, 2008 08:52 PM
It's not that strange. All interested students might be a small number. After all, it's a small class. It is also not that relevant, as it serves no comparison to say that a certain class was successful in getting jobs not knowing what other schools did and at what percentage and how consistently. Anyway, Michigan is a very respected school. But its tax program is still not as highly regarded as NYU, Georgetown and others. So if the competition is more intense, it's not a better choice out of those.
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MMend

Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 33
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:02 PM
I don't know what you mean by "regarded"... regarded by whom? if you mean by prospective hiring partners at BigLaw firms I think that hiring stats speak for themselves and that for all recent years...

As regards your assertion that the class is a small one, you're right, by I'm not sure too what you are implying by that...

And finally, with respect to other school hiring stats, please, you are most welcomed to find relevant threads on this website..
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mnementh

Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 100
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:26 PM
Fine we get it, you're happy with the school and you're confident about it. Good luck. It's just that your feelings/stories/optimism is one thing and the fact that NYU, Georgetown and the others are much more prestigious than Michigan is another thing ... btw, coming up with excuses regarding why the ranking is not what you want in U.S news is common but does not impress most employers. what you provided is not "hiring stats" and no, if you want to make a convincing argument, you need to list the other schools as well by yourself, or else, just say that you've heard that the couple of guys who wanted positions found them (this is true for every law school).

[Edited 08 Apr 2008 by mnementh]
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MMend

Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 33
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:56 PM
Dear mnemeth, how can I provide hiring stats for things that I don't know (other schools)? In this regard I just can read all postings provided by this website...

And trust me that I don't want to impress anybody and I'm completly sure that's the name recognition of NYU tax program is far beyond that of Michigan Tax. Futhermore, if you will pay attention to what I have said, I haven't said that the Michigan Tax is more prestigious and/or academicly demanding, for I just don't know and lack of any info or academic knowledge to certify. The only thing I said is that based on hirings stats only, I'm impressed...

So, don't take it personally! :)
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mnementh

Joined: 27 May 2007
Posts: 100
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Wed Apr 09, 2008 09:54 AM
No problem. Michigan is also very prestigious as any Top 10 school really, and also in Tax. I hope you don't take it personally either, but hearsay is not hiring stats ;) at least not in the long run... you have no way of knowing in the course of many years how the real hiring stats are.
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MMend

Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 33
Columbia v. Michigan v. Cornell
Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:41 AM
As a saying goes "there're lies, big lies and statistics...", so I guess we're on the same page... :)
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