http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457 en LLM Sorbonne - LLM GUIDE Discussion Board Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:49:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#457 Hallo! Anybody can kindly advise me bout LLM Program at Sorbonne University in Paris.Somebody else to go there or have experiences with applying tuition etc.? Thank You! Yong Wed, 26 Jan 2005 02:20:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#469 Hi Yong, I had a look at the Sorbonne page and it seems to me that the program is entirely in French. There is also a ne LLM Program at Assas paris 2 but thats aslo in French. If you know French its not a problem of course. Wed, 26 Jan 2005 14:45:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#473 Oh thats not really good,I dont speak French really.You know of llm programs in France taught in English. I know this one Aix Marseille, but I heard it is only 20 places and competetive. Are there any more English language programs? Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:19:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#496 Yong, yes, I guess wothout French language knowledge its probably a bad idea... English ones? Well, you know about thze Aix Marseille one already, apart from that I just know about the mSC AT edhec but this is not a real LLM, so dont know. Pierre Sun, 30 Jan 2005 06:38:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#592 hello pierre, I looked also at the program by robert schuman university which is English but I think program is offered by dresdn university so just one term in france. You heard bout this ? Sat, 05 Mar 2005 05:25:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#1460 You should apply to Sciences-Po Paris (Institut d'Etude Politique de Paris) Master degree which is by far one of the most respected prestigious elite school in France, often refered to as the "French Harvard". (Sorbonne is just appealing for foreigners because of its famous name). Its Law program is excellent. Most classes are taught in English and French. Moreover Sciences-Po Paris has double diploma program with Columbia, Cornell and London School of Economics... Be aware that every law student at the Sorbonne dreams of going to Sciences-Po Paris... Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:07:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#1620 Sorry, but just about every statement made by igal is silly. The "French Harvard", that would be Ecole Normale Superieure or Ecole Polytechnique. Sciences-Po is not a law school, therefore is not accredited to grant law degrees. That's why you can't name a single lawyer or law professor who received a *law* degree from Sciences-Po. Sorbonne also has joint degrees (law and otherwise) with Columbia, Cornell, as well as... you guessed it, Sciences-Po. Make no mistake about it, the top law schools in France are Sorbonne and Assas. Period. Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:06:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#1770 I disagree a little, Ecole Normale Sup and Polytechnique are not relevant (eventhough they're the best) because they don't offer any law program !! Having graduate from both the Sorbonne and Sciences Po, I think the 2 are great, but different. It is true that if you want a "regular" law degree, Sciences Po degree is not one. However its "Master" has an excellent reputation and no employer will ever criticize you for having chosen Science Po instead of the Sorbonne or Assas. Actually, classes in Sciences Po are smaller, you have more homework, more international students, so really you'll have fun. But it remains a general degree (economic law, regulation...check at their website which has an english version), if you want to really specialize in a specific area (for instance taxation), then you should prefer the Sorbonne or Assas. I'm currently applying to LLM programs in the US and it seems that both have a strong international reputation, so whatever school you choose I promise you'll enjoy it ! Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:10:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#2155 Does anyone know if there is an LLM program in Paris that is instructed in English? It appears that the Sorbonne and Assas programs are entirely in French. Is this true? Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:27:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#2156 Sorry to post again, but the LLM-Guide listing of the Sorbonne program states that instruction is in French and English. Has anyone confirmed this? Fri, 25 Mar 2005 08:42:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#2162 The Sorbonne LLM program is entirely in French. There is an intensive legal French class for those who feel they need brushing up (taught in French, of course). Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:33:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#2164 Thanks poiu! You are right that the language of instruction is French only. The Sorbonne listing has been changed. edit Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:24:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#3746 I just graduated from the University of California at Berkeley and i am thinking of applying to the "Master" program at Science Po Paris. Is anybody can tell me if Science Po offers Master in History or do i have to apply to other universities that specialize in History. Thank you for your response! Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:49:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#3837 Hi Isa ! History isn't Sciences Po's speciality, therefore the "regular" master offers just a few specific courses in history, but you'll be required to take other courses (economy, politics...). You could be more interested in applying to the special research master in "history and political theary" (XXth century), but try and find out if the topics offered suit you. Sciences Po is a great school, but tough (a lot of work, especially oral presentations, hard for international students if their're French is not fluent). I advise you to apply to regular universities for the variety of topics they offer, plus you'll have less homework and more time to enjoy Paris, it would be useless to come over here and spend all your time in the library. Don't hesitate if you have further questions. Good luck through the admission process ! Wed, 20 Apr 2005 04:39:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4144 Hi Lisa Yes Sciences-Po Paris has the best Master Degree in contemporary History ( Centre d histoire du XX siecle). Definitely a very good choice. Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:11:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4225 hi....i don`t care if the llm is in french...actually it`s better like that...but can u please help me with some info... i`m interested in the costs of a llm at sorbonne or even assas..even living expenses if it is possible...and if u can give details it would perfect... txs very much... Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:33:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4227 hi....i don`t care if the llm is in french...actually it`s better like that...but can u please help me with some info... i`m interested in the costs of a llm at sorbonne or even assas..even living expenses if it is possible...and if u can give details it would perfect... txs very much... It seems to be 6.000 euros (tuitions), concerning the living expenses it's really difficult to say. It depends if you want to rent a studio, if you want a one bedroom...and if you want to leave near the Sorbonne or not (it's one of the most expensive place of the city). Fri, 22 Apr 2005 03:24:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4244 First, yes tuition is 6 000 euros, and if you're lucky to get a room at the Cite Universitaire ( http://www.ciup.fr/ ), it's anywhere between 282 euros and 580 euros a month, depending on your student status. Speaking of tuition, French institutions are learning from the Anglo-American model and have really increased their tuition for foreign students. Sciences Po recently increased its tuition to around 5 000 euros. It's still cheap by American standards, but for French students, it's basically free. French schools, like their Anglosaxon counterparts, know that foreigners are willing to pay for the name. But if the return on your investment is good, why not? Everyone wins. Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:33:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4267 txs...so 6000 per year right? hmm....i thought it was cheaper....and if ur a foreigner but u are already a student at sorbonne is the same thing?i mean if u have ur "license" and on ur diplome it says sorbonne and u want to continue... Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:06:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4268 Hi, I got my master from Paris II (which is, with Paris I, the best law school in France). Why you don't want to get a master's degree (before- DEA or DESS, now they are changing names)? I got it two years ago (in international law), paid about 300 euros per year, being a foreign student. You're studying with the French, it's not a "special" LL.M. for foreigners.. Fri, 22 Apr 2005 21:29:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4280 LLM programs in general are geared towards foreign law graduates who want to learn the host country's law in one year. No difference for the Sorbonne LLM, which is only open to foreign law graduates. If you already possess a "maitrise en droit" it would be rather odd for you to re-study French law in an LLM program even if it were open to "native" students. If you only have a "license", that would not qualify you for any LLM program, because the license is not the law degree that allows you to take the Bar. On the other hand, foreign law graduates can certainly apply directly into a specialized "DEA / DESS" programs, but there, such a student will have to pick up the fundamentals of French law on his own. Many foreign graduates go directly into a DEA/DESS program, but they lament the fact that given the workload of the regular program, they have no time to learn the basics, and they really don't have a grasp of basic French law (particularly public law). Students from countries based on the Napoleonic Code (the Latin American countries) might have an easier time picking up French law on their own than students from the common law countries. So, for foreign law graduates, it all depends on your aim: is it to specialize, or is it to have a firm grasp of the fundamentals of French law? Fri, 22 Apr 2005 22:01:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4282 so...now u kinf of lost me.... i`ve already study basic french law...i`m studying in a program that gives me a licence issued by sorbonne directly although i`m not attending the courses in france.. in order to continue in paris as i want i need to know how much it costs.. so if i already know the basics and want to go for a 2 years master i`m considered equal to french students and pay less than 6000?? i don`t care if i continue in paris II ..all that counts it`s to continue in paris... and to go to the bar exam which degree do u need? txs for all the info Fri, 22 Apr 2005 22:33:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4283 so...now u kinf of lost me.... i`ve already study basic french law...i`m studying in a program that gives me a licence issued by sorbonne directly although i`m not attending the courses in france.. in order to continue in paris as i want i need to know how much it costs.. so if i already know the basics and want to go for a 2 years master i`m considered equal to french students and pay less than 6000?? i don`t care if i continue in paris II ..all that counts it`s to continue in paris... and to go to the bar exam which degree do u need? txs for all the info To get the Bar exam, you need a "maitrise", which is the diploma you can take after a licence. It takes one year. In france, you have - A licence (after 3 years) - A Maitrise (at the end of the 4th year) After the Miatrise, you can pass the Bar exam. You can also apply for a Master directly after the Maitrise (former DEA/DESS) =2year. During this time, you can take the Bar Exam when you wan (at the beginning of your first year, second year, or at the end) If you do one of this French Masters (and not the LLM for foreigners], it's not expensive, I think it's around 300 euros per year. When I did my master at paris II Assas, there were foreigners (they did very well). You should call the University. As a foreigner, you have different rules if you want to take the CRFPA (bar exam) and you can specify that French is not your native language, go to the site " www.efb-paris.avocat.fr" Good luck. Sat, 23 Apr 2005 01:45:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4293 Be aware that French students who want to take the bar exam have to register almost 1 year in advance, at the same time they enroll for their maîtrise or DESS/DEA. I should think the same rule applies to international students. So don't miss the deadline, their's no exception afterwards ! Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:52:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4303 Pour les avocats inscrits aux barreaux étrangers, ils peuvent se profiter des régimes spéciales et plus faciles pour accéder aux barreaux français, notamment celles de « l’article 99 » pour les communautaires et de « l’article 100 » pour les non-communautaires. Voir, respectivement, http://www.cnb.avocat.fr/VieProfessionAvocat/VPA_deveniravocat_lesresortissants_communautaires.php http://www.cnb.avocat.fr/VieProfessionAvocat/VPA_deveniravocat_lesresortissants.php Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:34:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4313 merci beaucoup pour tout.... the pb i had with the bar exam is that we`ve been told there`s no matrise anymore and that u go directly into master.... in my country the uni is 4 years and although i`m having my licence from sorbonne this year i still have one year till i finish my uni also... txs Sat, 07 May 2005 06:42:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4864 Thanks a lot Tom for your information. I am actually fluent in French, being born and raised in France so it will not be too hard for me to seat in a french classroom. My field of interest in history covers the period of Early Modern Europe, not Modern history. Can i still apply to Sciences Po? I don't know if i could apply to the Master in "history and political theory." Do you know what is Sciences Po requirements? My plan is to apply to a university in France that will allow me to apply later for an internship at UNESCO Headquarters in Paris. What university do you think will best help me get an internship and hopefully a job at UNESCO? Je vous remercie d'avance et a bientot! ISA Sat, 07 May 2005 19:15:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4881 Hi Isa, if your purpose is to work for the UNESCO, I would definitely advise you to try Sciences Po. It may not be the best choice with regards to history (it's clearly not it's speciality), but it's the place to be if you want to have this kind of career. Many Sciences Po students do their internships in ambassies, UNO, UNESCO etc... competition is tough but it's the place where you would have the best chances. Good luck. Mon, 09 May 2005 10:22:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#4919 A mon avis, choisir une école, quoiqu’elle soit renommée généralement, malgré le fait que le champ d’étude désiré ne soit pas le meilleur à cette école, juste pour améliorer la chance d’obtenir un stage à l’UNESCO, ne serait pas une bonne décision. Bien que je connaisse 4 personnes de Sciences Po actuellement stagiaires à l’UNESCO, ils sont tous d’origine du Moyen Orient, avec une forte connaissance des langues de la région, car ils étaient choisis expressément pour leurs compétences linguistiques. Ben, c’est les langues arabes aujourd’hui, ça peut être les langues baltiques demain, qui sait. Donc, c’est trop aléatoire en ce qui concerne les besoins de l’UNESCO. De plus, on n’aurait pas eu des meilleures études en histoire à Sciences Po. Thu, 12 May 2005 05:23:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#5049 Hi Lisa Sciences-Po Paris ( Institut d Etudes Politique de Paris) as a prestigious "Grande Ecole" is definitely the best choice for carreers in International Organizations, NGO... Mon, 16 May 2005 04:12:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#5258 Thank you all for your reply. I have been thinking of all what you said in regard of applying to Sciences Po in order to work for Unesco. lkjh, you said that to choose Sciences Po only to improve my chance of getting an internship at Unesco might not be a good decision. Now, i was thinking perhaps i don't need to apply to Sciences Po at all. I have a Bachelor of Arts degree in History from the University of California, Berkeley and was a member of the Model United Nation Club for two years. I speak French, English and a little of Persian as well. Can anybody tell me where and how i could talk to someone about getting a job at Unesco and if a B.A. degree is enough to start a career in this organisation? I have looked at their website, but they lack information regarding requirements to get a job. I also don't want to send my resume yet and miss my opportunity if they later tell me that i need a higher level of education. Being in the United States for many years now, i have lost contact in France and i would appreciate if anyone could advise me where i could get answers to my questions. Merci d'avance! Isa Thu, 01 Sep 2005 22:16:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#7552 I am sorry but not every student from the Sorbonne dreams of attending Sciences-Po Paris. This sounds like non sense, particularly that both schools are really different. You should apply to Sciences-Po Paris (Institut d'Etude Politique de Paris) Master degree which is by far one of the most respected prestigious elite school in France, often refered to as the "French Harvard". (Sorbonne is just appealing for foreigners because of its famous name). Its Law program is excellent. Most classes are taught in English and French. Moreover Sciences-Po Paris has double diploma program with Columbia, Cornell and London School of Economics... Be aware that every law student at the Sorbonne dreams of going to Sciences-Po Paris... Fri, 02 Sep 2005 10:31:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#7556 Sorbonne has also joint degree program JD/maîtrise with columbia and cornell and also llb/maîtrise with King's college. Actually, there is also a joint degree program after JD/maîtrise Paris I/Cornell/columbia called "dess droit de la globalisation économique" (taught both in english and french, directed by Horatia Muir Watt from Paris I and Marie-Anne Frison Roche from Sciences-Po) with sorbonne and sciences-po, so they work together! Thu, 15 Sep 2005 03:39:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#7747 I'm an American law student, and I'd like to work for an American law firm in Paris some day. I have a few questions, and I hope someone can answer them! 1) Do I need a law degree from a French school to practice in France, or is there some way to take the French bar without a French law degree? Do I need the French bar to work in an American firm's Paris office? 2) If I do want to get a French law degree after finishing law school in the US, which degree (LLM or DESS) can I get and which should I get? 3) Are there programs in the US that would allow me to work toward a French law degree? Someone mentioned in an earlier post that they were getting credit at the Sorbonne in the US, I believe. 4) What is the French bar exam like? Is it very difficult for a foreigner to take? Is it all essay questions? 5) Where can I get info about the French bar? Any help is appreciated! Mon, 09 Jan 2006 20:58:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#9557 1) To practice as a lawyer in France, you must either have taken the French bar exam or be a qualified lawyer in another European country. To take the French bar exam, you need a French degree (Maîtrise or Master1, DEA, DESS or Master2) in Law from a French university. 2) DEA (Diplome d'Etudes d'Approfondies) or Master2 Recherche is mostly a research degree that people take to do a PhD (but not exclusively): it involves wirting a long dissertation DESS (Diplome d'Etudes Supérieures Spécialisées) or Master2 Professionnel now is a taught degree that involves a mandatory internship. If you want to practice, the best is the Master2 Professionnel 3) I don't know of any American degree that allows you to get credit for a French degree (except if you take a four-year long JD/Maitrise double degree). 4) The bar exam consists of 3 5-hour written examinations and afterwards 5 oral exams. It is, I believe, very difficult for a foreigner because even French students don't get it easily and also because it only involves essay questions (multiple choice questions are very unusual in France). 5) To be able to take the test, you need to sign up for a mandatory preparation course at the university where you will take the exam (universities are in charge of setting up the examination and grading it). So I guess the best info you could get would be from the university where you want to take it. Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:07:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#9782 Hi, How well do you have to speak French to get in to the LLM at Sorbonne? (Preferably, which level of the common european standard). I am currently attending a cours, and would really like to be accepted for the LLM. Also, which rules do apply for lawyers from other european countries wanting to work as a lawyer in France? I understood that they do not need to take the bar exam, but are there any other exams or prerequisits? Where can I find information on this? Sat, 21 Jan 2006 09:27:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#9954 There is an exception for foreign trained lawyers to practice in France. You would not need a French degree but you ll have to take a test similar to the Bar Exam. You ll need to master French Law pretty well. As for working in France just as an American Lawyer, maybe you may work as a legal consultant if someone wants to hire you with this status (I would not recomend it though) but I would expect that you'll have some difficulties getting your working visa. http://www.cnb.avocat.fr/VieProfessionAvocat/VPA_deveniravocat_lesresortissants.php Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:48:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#10382 Does anyone know why there's such a discrepancy between Assas and Sorbonne in terms of tuition for the LL.M.? As I understand it, tuition at Assas is around 2,100 euros whereas at Sorbonne it is 6,000 euros. Also, does anyone know the practical differences between the LL.M. program at Assas and the LL.M. program at Sorbonne? The Sorbonne program seems very well organized and appears to include a 3-month placement component. It is difficult to find comparable information on the LL.M. program at Assas, though I understand the university has an exceptional reputation. As between the two, is one more difficult to get into? Fri, 05 May 2006 22:50:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#17769 Hi there, Im an alumnus of the LL.M. at La Sorbonne. First of all some general remarks: 1) Paris I and Paris II are the most reputed law faculties in France, with the people from Paris I saying Paris I is better than Paris II and vice versa. 2) The LL.M. is a programm specially designed for foreigners and therefore easier to get into than the DESS programms (where the number of non-French people is really limited at Paris I or Paris II). 3) the LL.M. is in French and they require a test certifying your level of French (its necessary to speak it well...) I was personally quite satisfied with the programm. Its a small group (a maximum of tweny students each year). So you get to know the teachers and fellow students really well. In my year (2004-2005), the student body was really diverse and of a high level (the two US students were from NYU and Berkeley). I have the impression that they are becoming more and more selective (the number of applications rise every year). The People of my LL.M. are doing well I have the impression: some of us work at big law firms (Linklaters, Gide, Willkie...), others work as in-house lawyers (Maersk shipping,...) or are doing other things (conseil de la concurrence, PhD's, diplomate...) The internship is a really interesting aspect of the LL.M., even though I had some trouble finding one (in the end the people from the programm helped me though and I found a stage in a French firm with a strong reputation in international arbitration). Places where people went on stage included: Clifford Chance, Willkie, Shearman&Sterling, ICC, UNESCO... If you want to stay in Paris and you are already a member of a foreign bar, you can take some kind of special bar exam (a few people of my year took it and passed) which allows you to become a member of the Paris bar. The programm does prepare you in that way that it gives you an overview of French law. I hope this is helpful. If you have any more questions, just shoot... Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:22:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#40468 Just to clarify some incorrect facts...l'ecole normale superieure de cachan does have a law economics and management department . Sure it doesnt offer an LLM degree because it is meant to train futur professors in the field by preparing for the Agregation. Students from the Ecole Normale Superieure are selected to be the top intellectuals/ researchers/ professors in the country. Not so much at Sciences po paris... And, instead of paying you get paid for studying at the ENS (1200 euros/month) as you get the civil servant status. Paris 1 and Paris 2 are equally good. Seems like paris 2 is better at corporate law and paris 1 at international law. Either way, if you want to study law, don't get into sciences po. Tue, 03 Jun 2008 01:54:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/457/last#47935 Does the required internship take place after June, when courses end? The brochure didn't really make this clear. Thanks!