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LLM Netherlands
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jack  
Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 36 |
LLM Netherlands
Hi all. Does anyone have any experience with LLM programs in the Netherlands. If so, which programs are reputable? It is difficult to find any kind of ranking system for Netherland universities. Thanks.Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:11 PM Jack |
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| Marije3000
Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 9 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
Hi jack! I dont know of any ranking for Dutch universities either but I am from the Netherlands so I know people at different law schools. Schools that come to my mind with a good reputation are Leiden, the Pallas Program, Utrecht, Erasmus Rotterdam and the Maastricht University. But as we are in Europe the differences between the different institutions in terms of quality is not very big (unilke in the US).M
Thu Jan 27, 2005 07:42 PM |
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| jack
Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 36 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
Thanks for the information. How about Amsterdam Law School?
Tue Feb 01, 2005 04:37 PM |
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| Marije3000
Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 9 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
Hi Jack! Well, I think it should be quite as good as all the other schools here but I think you will not have much time to study if you live in Amsterdam ;-) No seriously, I dont know that much about its reputation as I said all schools are pretty good so hard to say which one is the best.
Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:49 PM |
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Star
 Joined: 12 Jan 2005 Posts: 30 |
Re: Re: LLM Netherlands
Wed Feb 02, 2005 01:06 PM Hi Jack! Well, I think it should be quite as good as all the other schools here but I think you will not have much time to study if you live in Amsterdam ;-) No seriously, I dont know that much about its reputation as I said all schools are pretty good so hard to say which one is the best. Hi Marije, See, I am always around. So comparatively, Leiden is more like a student town and peaceful for study? |
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| Marije3000
Joined: 11 Jan 2005 Posts: 9 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
Hi Star, nice you joined in! Yes, you could say that, a nice peaceful small student city. The thing with NL is that its a really small country so getting from one place to another never takes longer than one hour. People live in Leiden and other cities and go out in amsterdam on the weekend no problem.
Wed Feb 02, 2005 01:19 PM |
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| dav81
Joined: 27 Jan 2005 Posts: 3 |
Tilburg
Hi people! As I'm going to take a LLM at Tilburg University, does anyone know something about it? Or something about the town? If you have already had this experience, let me know. Thank you friends!Thu Feb 17, 2005 07:47 AM Davide |
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| Anneke
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 3 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
Hi guys,Fri Feb 25, 2005 01:04 PM just joined. I am a Dutch student and I read on the website of Qanu (the Dutch accreditation organ) that they just accredited the Law Programmes in Holland. The thing is that the text is in Dutch. I will try to make a translation soon about the conclusion parts and try to post it here. I think all uni's are good here, but you have to make a definite distinction in Holland between the Hogescholen and the Universities. I know that the Hogescholen like to translate their names to Universities as well. The thing is that the Hogescholen cannot grant LL.M.'s! The difference between Hogescholen and Universities is that Universities are academic schools, whereas the Hogescholen are better categorised by 'vocational training', I think. Keep that in mind if you are chosing an LL.M. in the Netherlands. Good luck searching and deciding. I will do my best for the translation. Greetings, Anneke. |
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| Anneke
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 3 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
Hi, I'm back. I have made the translation of the findings of the Quality Assurance Organ in the Netherlands. Unfortunately the site does not support the tables I used... Hope you can all manage like this. Good luck.Fri Feb 25, 2005 02:11 PM Greetings, Anneke *********************************************************************** Assessment scheme quality aspects of the programmes of the Faculties of Law* In conformity with the protocol Kwaliteitszorg Onderwijs 2000-2005 (Quality Care Education 2000-2005), the visitation commission would like to emphasize that a classification of the programmes on the basis of the average of the figures in this table is not justified. The assessment is based on the averages of the level of a faculty. This means that within a Faculty with a good score less good programmes can be taught and also the other way around: within a faculty with an insufficient score some of the programmes can have a sufficient score. Number of programmes 2 3 7 3 2 4 5 3 3 1 VU UU UL UvT EUR UVA RUG KUN UM OUNL 1. Mission, objectives and final attainment level V G O V V G G V V V 2. Structure and content of the programme V V M G V V G V V V 3. Educational learning environment M V O V M V G G G V 4. Intake V V V V V V V V V V 5. Level of ‘studeerbaarheid’ (study quality) V M V V V V V V V V 6. Flow through and output M M M M O O M V V n.b.(1 7. Quality of the graduates (2 V V V V V V V V V V 8. Efficiency of the organisation and quality of the staff G V O V G V V G V V 9. Facilities and services M G O M G M G G G n.a. 10. Internationalisation and External relations V G V M M V G G V n.b.(3 11a. Internal quality assurance G V O V V G G V G V 11b. Self-study M O M V V G G M M O *) The assessment deals with the period 1996-2001. 1) Not assessed, there is no reference material available 2) Look at 1.B. paragraph 7 for an explanation of the weighing, ‘g’ was not used 3) Not assessed, the commission did not have a proper reference for the OUNL on this point. Abbreviations for the faculties: VU: Free University Amsterdam (Vrije Universiteit) UU: University of Utrecht UL: University of Leiden UvT: University of Twente (Enschede) EUR: Erasmus University (Rotterdam) UVA: University of Amsterdam RUG: University of Groningen KUN: University of Nijmegen UM: University of Maastricht OUNL: Open University the Netherlands The assessment concerns specifically the quality aspects that are mentioned in the table. Every aspect was weight on the basis of O (insufficient), M (moderate), V (sufficient) or G (good). Explanation of the scale: O (insufficient): The quality level is below the standards set for a university education, as defined in the protocol and frame of reference M (moderate): The quality level is not completely sufficient, a limited number of aspects deserve some extra attention V (sufficient): The quality meets the requirements, it is the result of well-considered policy G (good): The quality is obviously higher than the set standard, it is a good example for other programmes |
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| Account deleted | Re: LLM Netherlands
Hi guys! Fri Feb 25, 2005 08:34 PM just joined. I have a LL.B from Turkey and have been living in Canada. I'd like to do my LL.M in the Netherlands what is the acceptance rate for Int. student (without scholarship) I don't have a high GPA? Are there any average schools that you could suggest based on my level? Thanks.. |
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Marks
 Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 30 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
Anneke, thanks for pointing out the difference between Hogescholen and Universities.Sat Feb 26, 2005 08:14 AM This is the link to the Qanu report (in Dutch): www.qanu.nl/?contentid=232 |
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| Star
Joined: 12 Jan 2005 Posts: 30 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
Hi Anneke,Sat Feb 26, 2005 02:09 PM Thanks for the translation and kind advice! That is really nice of you!! Star |
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| Marks
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 30 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
Hi, I found another interesting article about Dutch LLM degrees. here are some excerpts:Sat Mar 05, 2005 07:51 AM Using the title LL.M. in the Dutch context by Marilyn Warman and Chris Hopley, Nuffic translators LL.M. (5 July 2004, revised 26 July 2004) LL.M. is the abbreviation for Legum Magister, the Latin term for Master of Laws. LL.M. is written after the name. Many Dutch meesters in de rechten use this originally British academic title in international contexts. They find it more convenient than the title accorded to them by Dutch law, which is meester, abbreviated to mr. and written before the name. The education law currently in force, the WHW, which dates from 1993, originally stipulated that if university graduates at doctoraal level prefer, they could also use the letter M. (for Master), followed by an indication of the field. Similarly, hogeschool graduates could use B. (for Bachelor). An amendment that took effect in June 2002 refined the WHW’s stipulations regarding titles for use in international contexts. University graduates could now use either Master of Arts (M.A.) or Master of Science (M.Sc.). The stipulation for HBO remained the same. These stipulations were supplemented in 2002 by unofficial recommendations issued by the higher education associations. The HBO-Raad drew up a list of abbreviations to be used together with the B. for Bachelor. And the VSNU added the LL.M. as a third possibility for university graduates, alongside the M.A. and the M.Sc. This meant that there were now three possibilities in English that were roughly equivalent to the three Dutch titles at doctoraal level. Nuffic found the use of LL.M. acceptable despite the fact that the term is borrowed from another system, where it is applied to programmes and degrees that are different in terms of both function and content from the Dutch law programmes. For Nuffic, the critical factor was that the levels are the same. Up to now the WHW has not been amended to include any mention of the LL.M., however. The education ministry has agreed to look into the matter, but at the moment the status of the title LL.M. is not as official as that of the titles M.A. and M.Sc. Nevertheless, its use is widespread and for many meesters in de rechten it remains a useful international option. Some Dutch universities even print the title ‘Master of Laws, abbreviated to LL.M.’ on the diplomas they award to their law graduates. The lack of equivalence in terms of all but level might be a formal reason for Dutch meesters in de rechten to decide against using LL.M., however, as would its lack of an official status. But there is another reason as well. The abbreviation LL.M. is now being used widely in a different context. Since the introduction of the bachelor’s-master’s degree structure, more and more higher education institutions of various types are offering one-year postgraduate programmes that are concluded with ‘an LL.M. degree’. These programmes—which are offered not only in Europe, but also in the USA and elsewhere—generally have an international orientation and are taught in English in order to attract foreign students. Dutch meesters in de rechten who place the letters ‘LL.M.’ after their names should be aware of this new development. They should also know that in Britain, very few law students pursue an LL.M. Most earn an LL.B. (Bachelor of Laws) in a highly specialized bachelor’s programme and then prepare for the exam that makes them either a barrister or a solicitor. Academically inclined law graduates go straight for a Ph.D. Even in Britain, the term ‘LL.M.’ is now applied mainly to the great variety of one-year international courses described above. In the USA, the study of law is different again. There, a more general four-year bachelor’s degree is followed by three years of law school for the Juris Doctor (J.D.) degree. Law graduates who want to practise law then sit the bar examination, while law graduates who wish to pursue an academic career enrol in a one-year LL.M. programme. In the USA, as in Britain, the term ‘LL.M.’ is increasingly being applied to one-year courses designed mainly for international students. www.nuffic.nl/pdf/nuffic/glossary/LLMindutchcontex… |
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| Anneke
Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 3 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
Hi guys,Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:31 AM good article. If you are looking for LL.M.'s in the Netherlands, you can check www.studyin.nl. There is a whole database of courses and programmes there. You can look at the final qualifications to see with what kind of programme you are dealing with. If it says Master's degree, it might be that it is a not-recognised Master of Laws-degree. Just keep that in mind. Greetings, Anneke |
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| Stoy4ik
Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 7 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
Thanks Anneke for information , By the way have heard about University of Groningen, on map it seems to be very far away :>
Tue Mar 15, 2005 05:36 PM |
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| PB
Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 12 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
Utrecht University is currently the highest ranking Dutch university. It is the alma mater of Rene Descartes and lots of Nobel Prize winners. Other Dutch universities like Leiden hire PR firms to market the school. Utrecht doesnt have to. Its Nobel Prize winners speak for the school. The LLM programmes are THE BEST. Ask any United Nations official- Utrecht´s LLM is suited to the times and have a wide variety of degree programmes to choose from. Quality of teaching and moot court seminars are excellent.
Sat Mar 26, 2005 08:49 PM |
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| Marks
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 30 |
Re: Re: LLM Netherlands
Utrecht University and Leiden University are both ranked among the 100 best universties in the world (39. and 63. in the Academic Ranking of World Universities 2004, see ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2004/top500list.htm). However, I think Leiden's LLM programme is bigger (?) and more focused on international students. The LLM GUIDE popularity ranking places Leiden in the 7. and Utrecht in the 101. position (according to views).
Sun Mar 27, 2005 08:43 AM |
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| Account deleted | Re: LLM Netherlands
What about Amsterdam?
Sun Mar 27, 2005 02:39 PM |
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| axelw
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 9 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
I'm still very undecided between Leiden and Utrecht, can anyone help?Fri Apr 15, 2005 09:31 PM Axel |
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| Anna
Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 1 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
Hi Axel,Thu May 05, 2005 02:01 PM Have you solved your dilemma? I am in the same position. I have been admitted to both Utrecht and Leiden for LL.M. programme but it's difficult to decide. There is something sexi about both of them (staff at Leiden University seems to be of very high quality-it is full of professors) but overall ranking of Utrecht seems to be better. If you hear anything interesting, please let me know. Good luck with deciding!!! Anna |
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| axelw
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 9 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
Hi Anna,Mon May 09, 2005 08:04 PM I have no idea yet, I have about three weeks to decide and I am trying to get all the information possible I can get from people who either know the Universities or have attended the programs. I agree that while Leiden University seems more likeable, there seems to be a consensus on Utrechts reputation. Yet, I recently found out that Leiden is member of more European and International Affiliation School Programs with schools like Oxford and Cambridge and at the same time I found out that Utrecht has better academic reputation in general. I am very undecided and I don't have much time left...if anyone out there can give us more insight on this issue it will be highly appreciated... Thanx |
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| pollyemma
Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 2 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
what kind of jobs can you get after earning an LLM at a Dutch University?
Wed May 11, 2005 01:22 PM |
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| axelw
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 9 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
I am taking votes now.... Utecht or Leiden?
Thu May 19, 2005 06:36 PM |
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| legaldocs Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 72 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
everything depends on money.Fri May 20, 2005 10:01 AM Leiden is more expensive than U |
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| PB
Joined: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 12 |
Re: LLM Netherlands
I would choose Utrecht - has LLM in both International and European Law, good for law firms and clients. Should you decide to take only one course in European law, still your final degree would be : ``Master of International AND European Law´´, quite neat. :) It allows you to choose a variety of subjects too. It is academically harder perhaps because it requires moot court subjects and preparing for an international law moot court of the Jessup type is demanding. You cant copy notes from your classmates on this one, but think of how your CV appears if you have an LLM in International and European Law considering that it covers the rapidly expanding European Union including perhaps, international environmental law and of course,business law. From the standpoint of a better CV, it does look impressive :)
Sat May 21, 2005 07:29 AM |
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