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Working in England after LL.M:?

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Toni86

Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Working in England after LL.M:?
Tue Feb 03, 2009 03:31 PM
Hello fellows!

I am interested if there would be a possibility of working in Great Britain after completing an LL.M. program.

I think working as a lawyer there would be very difficult there because of the educational background from a different country. (Austria in my case) What do you think about that?

Or might there also be a possibility to pursue an academic career at a British university after completing an LL.M. degree as a foreigner?

Thanks for your opinions and experiences!!!
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S_Dimelow

Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 157
Working in England after LL.M:?
Tue Feb 03, 2009 05:49 PM
To be honest, although you end up getting paid less than your corporate colleagues, entry into academic law is just as competative. Not only does it depend on your credentials and where the LL.M is from but a PhD has become one of the must have things for new applicants and so your grades from both LLB (or equiv) and LLM would have to be good enough to find you a good programme and funding (if you required it). That said, you may be able to find some lecturing work after your LLM (I know some who recent lecturers who 'only' have LLB and LLM) but they are likely to be short term contracts.
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lmwoods

Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 159
Working in England after LL.M:?
Tue Feb 03, 2009 06:43 PM
I sometimes wonder if getting a job in academia is not more competitive that getting a training contract (though of course that may change in the current climate). I say that because you are expected to have done more than your average trainee, as well as having high grades to start with. I agree with S Dimelow that - although the UK places not such formal requirement on applications - increasingly junior lecturers have (or are finishing) PhDs. They will quite often have some teaching experience (often institutions offer part time teaching to their PhD students) and the beginnings of a publication list/plan to turn the PhD into a book. Having said that, I do not think that there is any discrimination against applicants who do not have a Uk law background. What is crucial is the quality of the candidate. Of course, if an institution is looking for someone to teach domestic criminal law and you have done an LLM in european commercial, you might find it hard to persuade them you have the substantive knowledge. Not all posts are tied to domestic subject matter though. A useful website for looking for academic jobs is:
www.jobs.ac.uk
Or you could look at the Guardian or THES online.

With regard practice an LLM is not a qualifying law degree and so wouldn't be any help to you in satisfying the requirements to practise in this country.

[Edited by lmwoods on 03 Feb 2009]
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Kerfuffle

Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 122
Working in England after LL.M:?
Sat Mar 07, 2009 09:44 PM
Just to echo the other responses, the chances of getting an academic position in a UK university without a PhD are virtually non-existant now. The only major exception is found when the candidate has significant work experience and publications, which off-sets the need for a PhD. E.g. you'll find experienced lawyers, partners, QCs etc. working in academia (particularly the UoL) without a PhD.

As for working in the corporate world, you'll have a hard time finding a job in the UK. I was speaking about this to some eminent lawyers last week and was told 'just don't bother' at the moment.

There is also the issue of growing protectionism. The government and media are spear-heading the 'jobs for British workers' policy, and assuming employers follow this (they legally don't have to) you'll find that unless you can offer something unique to the job market the job will probably be given to a British candidate.

p.s. maybe we could swap! I'd love to work in Austria!
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blaken

Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 16
Working in England after LL.M:?
Sun Aug 02, 2009 02:24 AM
Would my LLM help me with a job in the private sector, e.g. large private companies, shipping companies, or organisations like the UN?

I prefer a job that requires traveling. Any ideas?
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Toni86

Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Working in England after LL.M:?
Mon Aug 03, 2009 07:30 AM
I would also be interested in the answer of blakens question.

Is the only possibility after completing your LLM degree in the UK to return to your home country?
As the answers in this thread show it seems to be very difficult to work in the UK, but are there other international options?

Thank you for your answers!
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Toni86

Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Working in England after LL.M:?
Mon Aug 24, 2009 09:33 PM
push
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mariae


Joined: 20 Aug 2009
Posts: 9
Working in England after LL.M:?
Tue Aug 25, 2009 04:52 AM
If you believe in luck yes..you can easily find a job. I am not considered a First student but I managed quite well so far. Let nothing disappoint you and I wish you best of luck..Negativism is just mere jealousy !!!!!!! You can speak 2 or even 3 languages and in my opinion that is far better than just having a degree and you know just ENGLISH.

Good luck with it xxx
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AlritePedro

Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Posts: 7
Working in England after LL.M:?
Tue Aug 25, 2009 02:52 PM
There is also the issue of growing protectionism. The government and media are spear-heading the 'jobs for British workers' policy, and assuming employers follow this (they legally don't have to) you'll find that unless you can offer something unique to the job market the job will probably be given to a British candidate.

p.s. maybe we could swap! I'd love to work in Austria!


What?! If this person is from Austria they have the right to work in the UK. This is basic EU law.

Also, although you get tabloids and what not talking about British job for British workers the City (London) would never tolerate this as they want the best people in the world.

If you can't find work in England, come to Scotland! -we need the people :-)
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Kerfuffle

Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 122
Working in England after LL.M:?
Wed Aug 26, 2009 05:39 AM
For clarification, I didn't say someone from Austria didn't have the right to work in the UK (as confirmed in the parentheses of my initial comment). I was merely raising the issue of growing protectionist sentiments in the UK (not from the tabloids, but the government itself).

With the massive glut of UK law graduates over the next few years, it will be very hard for a non-UK national to get a job unless they offer something special (eg language skills, niche expertise).

The City is having to tolerate protectionist measures for international workers (not EU) eg. the increased bureaucratic visa system and the reduction in tax advantages for foreign workers.

Where in Scotland is there currently demand for lawyers? I'm sure many people on this forum would be interested to know where there is demand for lawyers in Scotland - particularly if they're heading off to do their LLM in Scotland this year.
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pedrinus

Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 183
Working in England after LL.M:?
Wed Aug 26, 2009 09:39 AM
Agreed Kerfuffle.

If a UK graduate cannot get a job with a 1st class in law, an LLM student is going to have a heck of a difficult time to get one.

FYI, the legal profession in London, as I mentioned before, is incredibly conservative ...if you have an LLM or not...they don't give a f***.

This is not the case in the United States!
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AlritePedro

Joined: 19 Aug 2009
Posts: 7
Working in England after LL.M:?
Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:11 AM
For clarification, I didn't say someone from Austria didn't have the right to work in the UK (as confirmed in the parentheses of my initial comment). I was merely raising the issue of growing protectionist sentiments in the UK (not from the tabloids, but the government itself).

With the massive glut of UK law graduates over the next few years, it will be very hard for a non-UK national to get a job unless they offer something special (eg language skills, niche expertise).

The City is having to tolerate protectionist measures for international workers (not EU) eg. the increased bureaucratic visa system and the reduction in tax advantages for foreign workers.

Where in Scotland is there currently demand for lawyers? I'm sure many people on this forum would be interested to know where there is demand for lawyers in Scotland - particularly if they're heading off to do their LLM in Scotland this year.


Ok, obviously the recession has hit lawyers all across UK.

I was just making a jokey reference to the fact that Scotland has an ageing population so more young professionals are very welcome.
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catseye

Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 38
Working in England after LL.M:?
Wed Aug 26, 2009 05:28 PM
British Government is making it increasingly difficult to offer jobs to outsiders. Vacancy for all jobs needs to be published in the newspapers so that it can be first filled by a local. If a company/organisation hires an non british candidate they need to explain to the government that they have not found a suitable local candidate and thats why have chosen an outside candidate. Lets face it there are lots of British nationals with the equivalent degree who can apply for the same job.

London's protectionist policy "UK jobs for UK citizens" are being very widely debated everywhere. One of the major problems that UK based companies are facing is that they might lose out on some very good candidate coz of this protectionist policy.

Further, earlier if one resided for 6 years in UK one would be eligible to apply for the British passport but now if you are transferred by a company to UK and have stayed there for 6 years one would not be eligible for the same. One has to leave the existing job and find another job in UK and live there for another 6 yrs to get a British passport. Finding a job in UK is another nightmare thanks to these new regulations coming into force.

So wake up guys...it is difficult for a non-UK law graduate to get a job there. If one is thinking that an LLM degree from UK is a ticket and an easy gateway to job offer in UK....I think such people are highly mistaken.

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pedrinus

Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 183
Working in England after LL.M:?
Wed Aug 26, 2009 05:49 PM
I agree.!!! It is becoming very very difficult.

LL.M are NOT a passport to get a job in the UK.!!
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Toni86

Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Working in England after LL.M:?
Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:19 AM
We have now discussed the difficulties in finding a job in the UK after completing an LLM in England.

What I would also like to discuss are the INTERNATIONAL CAREER OPTIONS after an LLM in England. As far as I know a British LLM is beside the LLM programs in the USA the most appreciated program by employers all over the world.

What about possibilities like working in EU institutions, in Easter Europe or maybe in Asian countries?

Thank your for your statements!

[Edited by Toni86 on 27 Aug 2009]
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aisha1

Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 5
Working in England after LL.M:?
Fri Aug 28, 2009 08:55 AM
If LLM in UK doesn't guarantee a job in the legal field... then what other possibility of job exist in any field... if some one wish to work there...
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pedrinus

Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 183
Working in England after LL.M:?
Fri Aug 28, 2009 09:27 AM
Well...study an LLB (3 years) and then the LPC or the conversion course for 1 year then the LPC, plus 2 years of training contract.
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Toni86

Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Working in England after LL.M:?
Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:45 AM
I completed my studies at the University of Vienna. Is that useless? :-(
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aisha1

Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 5
Working in England after LL.M:?
Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:50 AM
I need help!

First how do you post a new thread? I've been looking all over the page but can't figure out.

Second, I have chosen two Universities for LLM for the next fall;

1) Queen Mary University
2) University of Hull

I want to apply to one more University. Any suggestions?

Last, Is LLM in International Law a good area of study. Personally, I am very interested in it.

Hope to get replies :-)
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Toni86

Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Working in England after LL.M:?
Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:59 PM
You are in the wrong thread. :-)

But try to apply for University of Leicester.
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Toni86

Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 28
Working in England after LL.M:?
Fri Aug 28, 2009 01:00 PM
You have to push "New Post", then you can open a new thread.
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pvattorney

Joined: 06 Jul 2009
Posts: 19
Working in England after LL.M:?
Sun Sep 06, 2009 06:31 PM
hey catseye if not LLM then what about a non-UK lawyer giving his QLTT? if he clears this he would qualify as a solicitor in UK...would this work as an easy gateway to job offers in UK?
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mariae


Joined: 20 Aug 2009
Posts: 9
Working in England after LL.M:?
Mon Sep 07, 2009 08:18 AM
Transfer to the Bar

Qualified solicitors, qualified lawyers from other common law countries and legal academics are able to transfer to practice at the Bar.

here is the website:

www.barstandardsboard.rroom.net/Educationandtraini…

the competition is fierce-yes-I agree but your personality matters..and always grasp the bull from the horn !!!!!
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catseye

Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 38
Working in England after LL.M:?
Mon Sep 07, 2009 02:42 PM
hey catseye if not LLM then what about a non-UK lawyer giving his QLTT? if he clears this he would qualify as a solicitor in UK...would this work as an easy gateway to job offers in UK?


I have already replied to your PM.
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Cedric


Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Posts: 206
Working in England after LL.M:?
Mon Sep 07, 2009 05:08 PM
How can u qualify at the English bar if u just come to England to do the LL.M and u are not a lawyer back home with home being a civil law country?
Any insights?

thanks

C.

---
Many a man has been hanged on less evidence than there is for the Loch Ness Monster
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