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2010 U.S. News Rankings

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Gab2009

Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 108
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 03:51 AM
You're right Gab2009, good point... sorry. I don't understand why argue over opinions/predictions. Btw, old law school rankings for whoever is interested: http://www.prelawhandbook.com/law_school_ranking


:0)...thanks!
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Stagista11

Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 437
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 04:05 AM
I lke people who spend their best efforts to support their standpoint, but still something is missing here. History and prestige cannot suddenly be taken away after over 150 years. NYU's LLMs are known as milking cows...not exactly what you hear about Yale, Harvard or even Stanford...I want to point out once again that I don't care about law firms and lawyer, but I had many chances to hear from Goverment and IIOO people; they all said, with no exception, that recruiters seek for whom has studied at one of the historical top 5 (Harvard Yale Stanford Columbia Chicago)...neither NYU nor Berkeley, Michigan, UVA, NU made it...one last noteworthy issue...during the last weeks we have heard about many applicants choosing where to go to school this fall...I have never read -and I can tell you I've been very present on this blog- about anybody choosing NYU over Stanford (Harvard too) if no generous scholarship was granted...
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yasminm

Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 106
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 04:36 AM
I'm always rife to get into an unnecessarily fractitious debate like this one but this time, I have to say that I agree with Stagista completely. Whatever the merits of a ranking system, which for obvious reasons is by definition inherently flawed, I really cannot see anyone putting NYU over Stanford (or Harvard or Yale for that matter), except for the Tax LLM (the Tax LLM, of course, is one of the best in the business!). The argument, as Stagista11 pointed out, also doesn't make sense from a historical perspective. I would agree with his classification of CLS and Chicago in the top 5 as well, particularly when it comes to LLMs, save that I would also add that the first three are quite far ahead of any other school (and this includes CLS and Chicago) in terms of prestige and reputation and that equally reasonable and plausible arguments could be made that NYU should trump Chicago.
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Gloss

Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 80
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 05:15 AM
I met many people from Chicago since I came to the US. My feeling always was that they get jobs easily because of the size of the class. I was always impressed with that. People that only use rankings, with regards to Chicago, could make a bad decision if they want to work in the US. I dont know if historical ranking makes sense, but I always say that having a small class of LLMs helps a lot finding a job. In the end, lots of times you compete with your own classmates and particularly the classmates from your own country. So, if you are only 2 or 3 from your country, that is awesome for job searching purposes... some of them even sometimes already have internship which makes things even better.

[Edited by Gloss on 17 Apr 2009]
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Syniu1

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 17
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 06:23 AM
While I agree that YHS is far above everyone else, I disagree with the recent posts here. Firstly, reading this back I don't think it was suggested by anyone that NYU is currently 3rd or close to it today; but the person was right about the trend where everyone is talking how awesome nyu is, "dream school" link in the post by dumdedam is no coincidence... true they dropped to 5th but the overall trend was nyu getting better and aiming at the top...

while definitely agreeing that YHS is better i must say neither chicago nor cls have ANYTHING on nyu, au contraire.. and as for jobs I hear nyu's job placement office is freaking excellent. it's true small program might have advantages but nyu is NOT bigger than cls or harvard in any meaningful way... that "milk cows" comment is infantile, no law firm/professor/anyone talks this way about nyu llm's. it's just infantile talk of people that were rejected. keep in mind nyu accepts only 20% of the llm applications, so as big as it may be... and for jd's it's more selective than cls based on lsat just fyi.
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Stagista11

Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 437
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 06:28 AM
I do agree with you. class size is (was?) one of my main concerns after having been admitted...besides, it's also true competition will be mainly among fellow nationals. all that said, my program is so little that a fellow Italian will be welcome...one week to read the 2010 rankings issued by US News...wish NU gains a position eheh...
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Stagista11

Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 437
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 06:40 AM
20% is a little to high to talk about how selective NYU is...what about Yale, Stanford, and even Harvard? 20% against 2-3-5%??? this is maths, I mean. NYU class size is Yale + Stanford + Harvard + Columbia...we can argue about the "dream school" factor, which also depends on NYU's setting (try to imagine a foreign student coming for the very first time to the US...he/she is very unlikely to be choosing Ann Arbor over NYC...with all respect)...here we're talking about LL.M program, and not about JD...I'm very curious to see how many foreign lawyers will be placed in NYC law firms upon graduation...nowadays, with the current financial meltdown and thousands lawyers laid off in the last 12 months...
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doyouresearch

Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 29
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 06:47 AM
The person was right about the trend where everyone is talking how awesome nyu is, "dream school" link in the post by dumdedam is no coincidence... true they dropped to 5th but the overall trend was nyu getting better and aiming at the top...


How is "everyone is talking how awesome nyu is" anyway different from "market" talk? I take it you're entering NYU soon?

that "milk cows" comment is infantile, no law firm/professor/anyone talks this way about nyu llm's


Although I agree the statement can be better framed, I should highlight that, at least from my own experience, some academics in my home country had asked me not to apply for it (they never used the word "milk cow" but they did highlight the big size of the class and let me infer what I wanted from it by telling me that some of the other schools have a more competitive selection process, whatever that might mean).

Hope you have fun at NYU this coming fall!
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Syniu1

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 17
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 06:47 AM
maybe it's me but i don't understand if u're talking about jd's or llm's. i said for jd's it's more selective based on LSAT scores. for llm's i know it's 20%. u say for llm's it's 2-5% for YHS? is that what u're saying? for yale seems true, it's really selective crazy. for harvard i doubt it's that low. if u know the stats say them. how many for cls? how many for chicago? then i said dream school. this is for all american students, not just jd's, and not for llm's. lawyers true market sux for everyone, but if u have to be anywhere it's probably yhs or nyu or other big names.
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Syniu1

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 17
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 06:51 AM
yeah i'm going to nyu for international law. i was accepted also to cls. you should read that dream school article. the huge trend in recent years towards nyc in general and nyu in particular over some old big name schools (not yhs, but south ones), "rocks in nowhere", is something pretty common every1 is talking about, yeah. thanks, u too. anyway, i do doubt real academic told u to avoid nyu, what country is that u're coming from? u sure they didn't try to apply as scholar visitiors like the 1000's that try to every year and were rejected..

[Edited by Syniu1 on 17 Apr 2009]
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Gloss

Joined: 13 Oct 2007
Posts: 80
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 06:52 AM
Hey Stagista, forget about it... say hi to Posner for me! Enjoy your summer in Chicago... you deserve it! But be prepared for the winter there... and be prepared to answer lots of questions because my friends from Chicago say they love the socratic method there... CIAU MI AMICO, BUONA SORTE!
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doyouresearch

Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 29
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 01:00 PM
anyway, i do doubt real academic told u to avoid nyu, what country is that u're coming from? u sure they didn't try to apply as scholar visitiors like the 1000's that try to every year and were rejected..


You're right - the HYS trained SJDs who taught me obviously had a life ambition of being scholar visitors at your school. You're right, despite the close-to-unanimous view to the contrary in the earlier posts in this thread, your school is the best one. Let me know which other schools you've gone to as well so that I can unconditionally praise them as well and further feed your need for self-assurance.

[Edited by doyouresearch on 17 Apr 2009]
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Syniu1

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 17
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 06:38 PM
you're acting like an idiot, and from the look of your history, it's something you're doing in all threads you're engaged at... i never said that "my" school was the best or that it's "life ambition", but you're obviously a liar... a liar about academics telling you nyu sux, liar about standford alumnu, a liar about a lot of stuff... so yeah, i really need self assurance yeah right. welcome to the real world. People that were "trained" by Harvard would still be very happy to teach at NYU. It's the fourth/fifth whatever best school in the country and a lot of professors who previously taught at Harvard (the great Arthur Miller for example, Ryan Goodman is another recent one, and there are plenty) or Yale (Yoshino) move to NYU. Some perhaps move the different direction. This is what they do, they move around the best schools in the country. Idiot.

[Edited by Syniu1 on 17 Apr 2009]
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Syniu1

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 17
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 06:50 PM
Prof. Choi, one of the leading in the world in the area of m&a and securities, is at NYU, studied his bachelor at Harvard, his JD at harvard ,(which I hear he finished first in class) his PhD at Harvard, and guess what he chose NYU (he was a visiting professor in Yale, Harvard, Chicago...) so yeah nyu sux don't go here... they just have some of the best professors in the country, some of the best practitioners, some of the great alumni, some of the best facilities, location, great career office, some of the highest graded jd's, some of the best llm's, ranked no1 in tax,international, and ranked usually high in other areas, and is consistently ranked in the top 5 overall and aiming higher. don't do that horrible. listen to this dodo here.... who doesn't say where he came from, what he wants, just that he thinks there's Harvard and nothing else I guess or maybe i have a feeling he was rejected by nyu and is really pissed off.. .he'll say he's going to harvard of course.

[Edited by Syniu1 on 17 Apr 2009]
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doyouresearch

Joined: 29 Mar 2009
Posts: 29
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 07:15 PM
they just have some of the best professors in the country, some of the best practitioners, some of the great alumni, some of the best facilities, location, great career office, some of the highest graded jd's, some of the best llm's, ranked no1 in tax,international, and ranked usually high in other areas, and is consistently ranked in the top 5 overall and aiming higher.


just that he thinks there's Harvard and nothing else I guess or maybe i have a feeling he was rejected by nyu and is really pissed off.. .he'll say he's going to harvard of course.


I wouldn’t for a second doubt Prof Choi’s credentials (he’s an amazing academic and I know of quite a few people who worked under him who had a blast of a time). I also wouldn’t doubt for a second that every single decent academic institution has a few professors with equally stellar credentials. That doesn’t say anything about each of the institutions but the comment I reproduced above to me at least does not in any way denigrate from my earlier comment on your biased thought process (which as far as I can tell is as follows: I am going to Institution X – accordingly, institution X is the best in the world). You say that you are not saying that NYU is the best in the world (because you know that might be difficult to justify), but you then proceed to state that NYU is the best in everything it does, which forces the very conclusion you concede you cannot make.

I think the lack of intellectual rigor in your reasoning is most evident from the fact that you would assume I’m from HLS (because of a previous RESPECTFUL debate I had with Gloss [on the merits and demerits of HLS and SLS], whom views I respect immensely but whom I nonetheless am happy to debate as a mature adult), thereafter since you argue I’m rejected by NYU, you realize that by logical extension, I couldn’t have been from HLS and therefore end off by dismissively saying “he'll say he's going to harvard of course”. So which am I, in or out? You seem willing to push any argument that buttresses your point, however contradictory it may be with your previous points. I would have found such logical leaps funny if I didn’t find it sad.

I’m not saying NYU is a bad school – it’s one of the best in the US of course. I’m also not saying that NYU doesn’t have good students or good profs – if the people I’ve come across are any indication, they are well-balanced and wonderful human beings (though none of them for obvious reasons would be caught dead arguing “it’s the best school in the world” in the incoherent and biased manner that you have), not to mention awfully smart people as well (as you would expect in any T10 school). I can’t say you exhibit any of these attributes however, and I am sorry if any of my comments touched a raw nerve since it seems to me you live in fear that one day you realize that you are not the best, and the reality can often be harsh and painful. In short, grow up. The faster, the better. NYU's a great school but if people like you represent its future, then I fear its future is not likely to be particularly promising.
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Syniu1

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 17
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 08:35 PM
sorry i'm not going to waste my time reading your drivel... yeah hls is cool, nyu sux. ok. go argue with someone else, you seem to like it. it doesn't change that you're an idiot.

instead of saying nyu sux in every thread try to give respect to some other institutions. I think nyu is one of the best schools in the u.s, u.s news thinks so too and so do most people in the legal world. I never said nyu is the best, obviously harvard and yale and perhaps Stanford are more prestigious, and there are many other great schools in T10, T14 and also beyond. i shiver when i consider the possibility though that harvard went so low as to accept someone like you, and therefore i highly doubt it... like i said, u're an nyu rejected brat spewing your hatred, ok we get it. Now I skimmed through your post nevertheless and saw that you didn't address any of the points... you said your ignorant lying thoughts about the professors, you were refuted, and you moved on... .you always lose your arguments so easily. you won't make a good lawyer i can assure you of that. for one thing - you're a liar, and that's an ethical problem with lawyers. secondly, you keep evading addressing the points and you use strawman arguments. You're pathetic. That's all there is to it.

[Edited by Syniu1 on 17 Apr 2009]
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loop_

Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 25
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 08:40 PM
I think some prospective NYU students get a little defensive on this forum because we keep reading about other individuals putting NYU down and dismissing it as a 'second tier' school or otherwise, politely or not.

It does grate, and it also got me thinking. Is this true? So, I decided to search for some of the opinions of Americans who might actually be more familiar with the situation there, and I found a brief thread on NYU v Columbia:

www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic…

I was less concerned with the content of the thread, but noted that the tone of the discussion was very different (basically, it assumed that both institutions were on a level footing). You can take what you will from it...
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wolla

Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 100
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 08:41 PM
Fellas/girls!

Enjoy that you have been admitted to your respective law schools and stop this cockfight! Attacking/defending each others choice of schools does not affect the quality of your respective choices in any way!

Save your energy! :)
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Syniu1

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 17
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Fri Apr 17, 2009 08:46 PM
I think some prospective NYU students get a little defensive on this forum because we keep reading about other individuals putting NYU down and dismissing it as a 'second tier' school or otherwise, politely or not.

It does grate, and it also got me thinking. Is this true? So, I decided to search for some of the opinions of Americans who might actually be more familiar with the situation there, and I found a brief thread on NYU v Columbia:

www.lawschooldiscussion.org/prelaw/index.php/topic…

I was less concerned with the content of the thread, but noted that the tone of the discussion was very different (basically, it assumed that both institutions were on a level footing). You can take what you will from it...


very good post... I totally agree with you. this puts the comments of neverdoneanyresearch in an even more ridiculous light... (if it was possible to make him look even more stupid)

Fellas/girls!

Enjoy that you have been admitted to your respective law schools and stop this cockfight! Attacking/defending each others choice of schools does not affect the quality of your respective choices in any way!

Save your energy! :)



and I totally agree with this as well. It's very weird that someone here who was already caught lying about stanford alumni and other issues thinks he's convincing anyone by saying nyu (!) sux (he went as far as saying academic people told him to avoid it lol. he even recommended people to go to cls instead of nyu because of class size which is ignorance at best... they are both large programs (harvard too) and have the same numbers in a random class, in contrast to small programs like stanford, yale and chicago) and having nothing to back it up... after been proven wrong, he moves on with strawman arguments trying to change subjects.

[Edited by Syniu1 on 17 Apr 2009]
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yasminm

Joined: 03 Mar 2009
Posts: 106
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:09 AM
Syniu1, with the greatest respect, stop feeding the argument. I don't agree with doyouresearch and his views, and I think he argued them too passionately (and was a little offensive in doing it too), but your comments are clearly meant to incite a response from him. What this means is that in a few hours time, he'd probably log on and attack you again; and you'd attack him again. Both of you pretend to have a debate when both of you are acting as childish kids. He's not being a good ambassador for his school, but god knows you're not being a great one either. Although it doesn't matter to me since I don't plan on doing a second Masters anytime soon, if I were looking for a masters, I'd be really turned off going to any school either of you go to if you happen to be the representative model student. Sorry - but I'm just getting really sick and tired of the childish comments from both doyouresearch and Syniu1. Every well-meaning comment from a third party gets spun into "support" for your side by both of you when none of it bloody is. I like to think I'm generally fair-minded but for the love of god, stop.
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Syniu1

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 17
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Sat Apr 18, 2009 01:19 AM
yeah, ok, i don't really care anyway. Godspeed yasminm.
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Hedek


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 152
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:47 AM
US News ranking since 1987 in one picture: x70.xanga.com/15af7060c1c30240353373/b185577034.pn…

Edit: and I insist on relinking Professor Seto's study. It's a must read to anyone who gives any weight to the US News ranking: papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=937017…

[Edited by Hedek on 18 Apr 2009]
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nicolas_a

Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 47
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Sat Apr 18, 2009 01:16 PM
I don't think cls acceptance rate is closer to hys rates than nyus
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Santa


Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 403
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Sat Apr 18, 2009 09:09 PM
Little bit excited for the new rankings: )
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Hedek


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 152
2010 U.S. News Rankings
Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:29 AM

[Edited by Hedek on 19 Apr 2009]
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