http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308 en Best Law Schools in Continental Europe? - LLM GUIDE Discussion Board Fri, 19 Aug 2005 08:24:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#7308 I want your opinions on law schools in continental Europe. I'm thinking about doing a LL.M but I haven't decided which law school. Can you make any kind of ranking between schools in different countries? I'm talking about prestige in the jobmarket. I've heard that College of Europe, Utrecht and Leiden are top tier law schools in Europe, is this true? I've also considered law schools in the Scandinavia e.g. Stockholm and Helsinki. Anyone want to make their personal "law school ranking"? I'm very interested about this since it really matters where you do your LL.M. I know it's impossible to compare different universities because they all have different characteristics and different programs but I just want your opinions. Maybe you've heard of good law schools or great LL.M programs. Share that knowledge. Fri, 19 Aug 2005 10:58:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#7311 hi such a ranking is impossible, it's even unhelpful. The law market in europe is very fragmented. Law is national because Europe is not yet a nation (take account of the fact that it is also a kind of "babel" land). A grad from leiden, will only be appreciated in Holland. So, the question you have to ask is : 1) am I fluent in a language other than english, and, if yes, which language 2) where do i want to practice and live Ciao Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:24:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#19900 While I agree with califourchon, I guess a programme as prestigious as the College of Europe would be one of the few superbly recognised across the continent; plus it's a bilingual degree. Apart from that, I would think that only Oxbridge, or something equally grand would come close. The only problem is that the CE degree is in EU law, so its all useless if that's not your field. In general, though, you should do well to follow califourchon's advice. Mon, 17 Jul 2006 21:52:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#19904 Oxbridge are not on continental Europe. Ranking by prestige: 1. Panthéon-Sorbonne 2. Leiden 3. College of Europe 4. Ludwig-Maximilians 5. Bologna Ranking by citation of faculty scholarship: 1. College of Europe 2. Bologna 3. Panthéon-Sorbonne 4. Ludwig-Maximilians 5. Panthéon-Assas Thu, 20 Jul 2006 20:12:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#19994 Thu, 20 Jul 2006 22:52:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#20003 On the perennial debate of who's better, Paris I or Paris II, I refer you to the thread "LLM in Paris" on the Panthéon-Sorbonne discussion board. Doesn't the name say it all? Paris "1" and "2" ; ) Thu, 20 Jul 2006 23:16:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#20004 @ Henrik: The only flaw in your submission is that Humboldt University (in Berlin) isn't medieval at all - it was founded in 1810 and is thus considerably younger than the classic German universities such as Heidelberg (founded in 1386, if I remember correctly) and Freiburg. As far as I am aware, the latter two also have the significantly more prestigous law schools. Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:36:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#20039 poiu, I am mildly aware that Oxbridge are not on continental Europe lol ;) My point was that it is perhaps only the College of Europe that is as well known as them across the continent. I assure you that Leiden, for example, is not well known at all in the south of Europe, though from your ranking I'm sure it is highly regarded elsewhere. Because of the fragmentation due to divergent languages, legal systems and cultures, there are only few institutions that have that kind of cross-border appeal and reputation. Wed, 25 Oct 2006 01:54:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#21694 First of all it is to mention that in Europe exist two different law systems: the Anglo-American (common) law system, that became popular because of GBs' many former colonies (e.g. USA, Australia, Canada, Southafrica) and the continental European Civil Law that is mainly based on codified law. So it is easier and more effective to study in Great Britain for English speaking students. The Germans (I am a German) and many other contries, except France and Italy speak (unterstand) quite good English. To say it friendly: The French prefer French and the Italiens prefer Italien. In Germany there are no elite universities (okay since a week or so we have three, but in fact only in natural siences). But there are some with very good repute. Of course the Bavarian Law Faculties of Munich and Heidelberg are the best in Germany. The LL.M programs are not so popular in Germany and I think nearly all lectures are in German. There must be a relative new and good private law school in Hamburg, the Bucerius Law School. I cant tell you something about the rest of the (Continental = Old ;-)) Europian law schools. The Sorbonne in Paris is one of the most famous universities at all. Bologna (Italy) is very old and has a very long tradition in teaching law. Especially Brussels (mainseat of European Parliament) and also Brugge are important for studies in European law. On the continet everyone knows the very famous and traditionl good universities of England: Oxford and Cambridge. So, if you do not want to study especially European Law or one of the national European laws or speak any European language fluent, study in England! ;-) My law school is at Augsburg. This is a little city in Bavaria near to Munich and has now also an own LL.M program, but I would not recommend it. Tue, 07 Nov 2006 13:17:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#21910 On the Paris 1 v Paris 2 debate, rather than making emptly statements, here is a list of all rankings I have been able to find on the internet: http://www.ulb.ac.be/polytech/smana/NOUV_OB/Observateur.htm http://www.smbgrecrutement.com/2_classement/6.html http://www.smbgrecrutement.com/2_classement/7.html http://www.smbgrecrutement.com/2_classement/11.html http://forums.figaro-etudiant.com/view.php?site=figaro&bn=figaro_formation&key=1113522114 Paris 2 as come well before Paris 1 in every single ranking I have found. One should be aware that they both can make the same claim at being the "Sorbonne". Historically, the "Sorbonne" was split into 12 different universities in 1968. 3 include the name in their present denomination (Paris 1, 3, and 4), but should not be mistaken with the original institution. Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:26:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#21934 Maari -if I were you, I would not go to Italy. I'm an Italian PhD student, and I spent one semester in the UK. I am sorry to say this but teaching was much better over there. In Italy, we have excellent legal scholars, but generally teaching is -alas!- not our main concern! You may be lucky enough to run into outstanding professors though. Besides, Bologna is one of the best Italian universities in the field of law. If you are interested in research (thesis-based LLM or PhD) try the European University Institute in Florence Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:06:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#22016 Hello, I would not recommend Spain. The level of teaching is not very high. UK is a good option if you have scholarship. Currently, i'm doing my LLM in Netherlands in Tilburg and believe me, i couldn't find better. Utrecht and Leiden are not so good anymore. The problem is that they're well known for the history and tradition, but they do not offer the up to date programmes, what in my opinion is crucial if you wanna be a state-of-the-art lawyer. Thu, 30 Nov 2006 12:58:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#22390 Hello everybody! I'm interested in an LLM at European Law somewhere in Germany. Is such a program offered in the Humboldt University? Or do you know which german law schools have special LLM programs for the European Law? thanks Sun, 17 Dec 2006 00:03:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#22826 I think Pompeu Fabra in Barcelona has a very good and variated Corporate L.L.M.M (MADE). UPF is a very recently institution but actually it is one of the best law schools (if not the best) in Spain and Europe. Tue, 09 Jan 2007 11:48:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#23299 Hi! I am also doing an LLM in the Netherlands and I have to agree with Joanna. Tilburg is simply the best option for both Business Law and Public Law. In fact, the University's Law School is currently ranked as the No. 1 International Law School by the Social Science Research Network (just visit the rankings section of www.ssrn.com). They are also introducing significant changes to their main programmes which will allow them to keep their position as a top European law school. In brief, I believe that Tilburg is the best option for those of you out there considering an LLM. Hello, I would not recommend Spain. The level of teaching is not very high. UK is a good option if you have scholarship. Currently, i'm doing my LLM in Netherlands in Tilburg and believe me, i couldn't find better. Utrecht and Leiden are not so good anymore. The problem is that they're well known for the history and tradition, but they do not offer the up to date programmes, what in my opinion is crucial if you wanna be a state-of-the-art lawyer. Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:31:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#23671 I want your opinions on law schools in continental Europe. I'm thinking about doing a LL.M but I haven't decided which law school. Can you make any kind of ranking between schools in different countries? I'm talking about prestige in the jobmarket. I've heard that College of Europe, Utrecht and Leiden are top tier law schools in Europe, is this true? I've also considered law schools in the Scandinavia e.g. Stockholm and Helsinki. Anyone want to make their personal "law school ranking"? I'm very interested about this since it really matters where you do your LL.M. I know it's impossible to compare different universities because they all have different characteristics and different programs but I just want your opinions. Maybe you've heard of good law schools or great LL.M programs. Share that knowledge. In Scandinavia the best law school is probably Lund university followed very closely by Uppsala. Stockholm is quite a way behind. Otherwise Copenhagen is very good but there are few courses in English i think. Finland is not in Scandinavia bt Helsinki is also a good university. Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:37:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#23672 Oxbridge are not on continental Europe. Ranking by prestige: 1. Panthéon-Sorbonne 2. Leiden 3. College of Europe 4. Ludwig-Maximilians 5. Bologna Ranking by citation of faculty scholarship: 1. College of Europe 2. Bologna 3. Panthéon-Sorbonne 4. Ludwig-Maximilians 5. Panthéon-Assas I would say : 1. Sorbonne (though its always rather low in all rankings and has no specific entrance requirements at undergraduate level anyway) 2.Heidelberg 3.Leiden 4.Bologna 5.Salamanca,Leuven,Lund Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:27:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#29773 Where do these rankings come from? I suspect a dark place somewhere below your back. Oxbridge are not on continental Europe. Ranking by prestige: 1. Panthéon-Sorbonne 2. Leiden 3. College of Europe 4. Ludwig-Maximilians 5. Bologna Ranking by citation of faculty scholarship: 1. College of Europe 2. Bologna 3. Panthéon-Sorbonne 4. Ludwig-Maximilians 5. Panthéon-Assas I would say : 1. Sorbonne (though its always rather low in all rankings and has no specific entrance requirements at undergraduate level anyway) 2.Heidelberg 3.Leiden 4.Bologna 5.Salamanca,Leuven,Lund Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:32:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#30597 Hello everybody, first of all I agree with the idea that it doesn't matter how old is the law school, but how up-to-date is. I took my LLM in Tilburg, nobody knows this town but the program is simply great. For what concerns, for instance, the Netherlands, Leiden is no more the best school, at least for foreigners that are not (of course) part of the Dutch social elite. About Italy (my country), Bologna is very old, but I'm sorry to say that now the law school is more famous to be extremely easy in comparison with other faculties than to be an excellent cultural centre. Ciao, Davide Sat, 05 May 2007 04:49:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#31034 I am glad to see Tilburg mentioned. I took my first law degree at Tilburg and am currently pursuing my LL.M. at Harvard. I can only say that Tilburg is a great school. The faculty devotes substantial resources to its LL.M. programs. The classes are small, generally not more than 30 people and students have plenty of opportunities to work closely with professors. Unlike Leiden for instance the LL.M. is not just a more expensive degree for foreigners. And if you are interested in legal research, it is definitely worth looking into the MPhil program. This program is offered in tutorial-style, with classes ranging from 5-10 people. You will be assigned a faculty supervisor with whom you work closely together for the rest of the year. And there are many opportunities to stay for a (fully funded) PhD afterwards. The faculty is young but is definitely on the rise- and I noticed that it is increasingly recognized abroad. After all, it ranks number 1 in Europe in the SSRN ranking for legal research- which is arguably the only credible law school ranking for European law schools. Hope that this doesn't sound too much of a promo-talk. But I noticed on this board that people tend to overlook Tilburg sometimes. Wed, 09 May 2007 20:25:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#31236 Ranking European universities... You guys make me laugh! This is absolute nonsense. You guys make rankings based on personal experience? Or you just did scientific research during the last summer holidays? LOL If you want to do tax law: go to Leiden or to that Austrian university Otherwise, each country has good universities. Of course, Leuven is not Oxbridge or Sorbonne. Sat, 07 Jul 2007 16:12:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#33311 European Law schools cannot be compared since each will teach their national law, most often in their national language. A german degree won't be of any help if you want to know/practice French or Spanish law. If you just want it as a line of your resume to practise in the US or UK just go for prestige. Sorbonne, Heidelberg, Bologna, etc... would be good choices. Now to practise in Europe with a real competence in local law, do not discard younger Universities with less international prestige but an excellent local reputation such as, for France, highly regarded Assas, Paris V, or Sceaux. If you are looking for a very specific field, other Universities could even be a better choice. For example, in international arbitration, E. Gaillard, one of the world references, teaches in Paris XII Saint Maur. For European law, that's of course Strasbourg's specialty. For Business law, I cannot think of better professors than Viandier and Canivet (former chief justice) in Paris V. Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:43:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#33637 I would go for "real" prestige, i.e. what recruiters and admissions officer know. While 99% of people in the street think Harvard is a better law school than Yale, the recruiters know the difference. Ok, both are top universities. The Sorbonne might be a better experience: famous for its history, but a crap university today. So it's definitely worthwhile to do some research. Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:02:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#33643 The Sorbonne might be a better experience: famous for its history, but a crap university today. La Sorbonne a crap law school !!! Do you have any idea of who teaches there ? Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#33644 Yes. Although I am obviously generalising and putting Paris I, III and IV in the same bag. Paris I for law and Paris IV for the Celsa and LEA stand out. Again, the recruiters will know. Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:34:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#35703 Pantheon-Assas (Paris Deux, Paris II) is generally understood as the best known for its Law faculty. After all, they were the leader of "Paris Universitas", the group of faculty who insisted on maintaining the traditional subjects taught - Law being one of them --, instead of the division of subjects favoured by the now Paris-IV (Paris-Sorbonne). Plus, most of their students are from the upper-middle class -- the reason you might want to pick prestigious law schools, or any universities of prestige, really, because you want to get some bloody connections, so attending posh ones are only logical. But honestly, the question is really what do you want to do? Research? Or do you just want a degree to practice (LLB)? If you want research then check the department and see if they have the supervisor(s) you are interested on working with, and of course, you need to check how much funding they have. But, if you just want an LLB or something of the sort, then go find the university that teaches the kind of law you want to practice. This is perhaps where your question comes into picture, which one is more likely to give me a "good" job. Then I can only suggest that you find an Index that gives you their graduates' employability -- I'm not sure where you can find this sort of Index in Europe, however. Nevertheless, note that selectivity of getting in to a program does not necessarily mean the program is THE best. It might give you a sense of prestige; getting in to a tough program and all. But some tough universities lack the "proper" connection to the local, or national, industry. So do you research on that as well, that is, if the university has a good relationship with the industry. Also, don't forget to gauge your potential faculty. If your professors are well connected, then you might be able to get them to notice you. Who knows, you might get hooked up. Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:18:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#36101 If you think about Central Europe, probably the best law school is at the Jagiellonian University (the oldest universities are Charles University in Prague /1348/ and Jagiellonian Univeristy in Krakow /1364/). In Krakow there are several LLM programs organized in cooperation with foreign universities (Washington, Dresden, Orleans) which grant their national diplomas. There is also the European Doctoral College (Krakow-Heidelberg-Mainz). Mon, 12 Nov 2007 03:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#36566 Personally I can agree with the opinion of a previous person that Jagiellonian University is one of the best in Europe. Another Polish University which is regarded as one of the best is of course Warsaw University but there is not LLM but MA in English. I read that Dutch Universities are very good in English programms which are very practical and useful for students. Danish , Norwegian and Swedish are regarded as as one best too because of their stndards. If you know well French and you consider French as a place of work Sorbonne is recommended as a higly University. In Germany there are many good proogamms. Wed, 26 Dec 2007 22:54:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#37962 As being a french law student, I'd advise you all to choose ASSAS (Paris 2) as your LLM choice if you plan on coming to France. It's considered as the Best Law School in France, and like someone already said, the students that go there come from the upper-middle class, so .. you get it. Assas is considered by far here as the #1 law school in France. I hope I helped some of you out! Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:19:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#38710 I can only agree with the person mentioning that we (Central Europe) are not so much into elitism. Especially in Austria we do not (yet) have elite universities - so we're just "fighting" who has the better reputation, Vienna or Salzburg...:-) In my opinion it is far more important to choose an llm programm that brings you forward concerning the content. Here in Salzburg we have, for instance, an LLM-Program in Transnational Business Practice which focuses on European and American business law, in collaboration with McGeorge School of Law in Sacramento (which is, as far as I know, among the 100 best universities in the US). The courses are all taught in English, so you do not have any language problems and if you can't decide whether to stay in Europe or the US, you're having both here! There are always very super-qualified lecturers like judges of the ECJ and members of the EC. It is quite a lot of work and quite exhausting - and surely nothing for people just whishing to collect titles to impress recruiters. But if you really want to gain knowledge, it is - in my opinion - one of the best programmes I know! Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:52:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#38779 Anyone knows Vienna School of Law is better than Salzburg. And you can tell that after you observe and compare the library facilities, the professors, the student life, the opportunities from Vienna and Salzburg. Actually, I don't think we should really compare the two: they are on different caliber. Vienna enjoys prestige in all Europe ... (However, Salzburg is very beautiful as a mountain resort. ) Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:41:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/7308/last#39221 My friend took the Salzburg/Sacramento programme - it does have a very high level - but it's still lacking wider recognisability (a Central European standard :)