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Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class

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FM1409

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Wed Sep 09, 2009 09:52 AM
Hey, I am very much interested in Intellectual Property Law and Commercial law, I note that the captioned universities require 2:1, but I didn't get a good grade in my udnergraduate i.e. 2:2 with most of my subjects at B grade. I possess of 5 years' working experience. Do you know whether there is any successful case for applicant with 2:2 class and working experience enrolling into the captioned 4 universities?
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Banking

Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 175
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:41 AM
No chance at LSE and KCL, medium chance at UCL, very good chance at QM.
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Jeremy Bentham

Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 47
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:44 AM
Not sure about the others but LSE often makes offers of admission conditional on a first class honours degree, so unless your work experience is very ''stand out'' or highly consistent with your proposed program of study you may be in trouble.
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Jeremy Bentham

Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 47
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:46 AM
Hey Banking just wondering why you would rate his chances more highly at UCL than KCl? Had always been under the impression that UCL was slightly more highly regarded and more stringent on admissions?
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Banking

Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 175
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:08 PM
About the same as far as law faculty goes, however, KCL ia a bit more elitist and sometimes prefers Brit students rather than international ones (they were several cases of either Asian or African students accusing KCL of discrimination, mind you most were in their medical school-check the net). KCL sees itself as an arch-rival of the LSE and Imperial College (in medicine). UCL is more democratic but by accepting more overseas students with different grading systems they have to be more flexible with their entry standards
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Jeremy Bentham

Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 47
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Wed Sep 09, 2009 01:20 PM
Ok interesting! Cheers!
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Contextualized

Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Posts: 2
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Wed Sep 09, 2009 05:56 PM
About the same as far as law faculty goes, however, KCL ia a bit more elitist and sometimes prefers Brit students rather than international ones (they were several cases of either Asian or African students accusing KCL of discrimination, mind you most were in their medical school-check the net). KCL sees itself as an arch-rival of the LSE and Imperial College (in medicine). UCL is more democratic but by accepting more overseas students with different grading systems they have to be more flexible with their entry standards


Are obscure grudges/controversies in the medical department relevant here?
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Banking

Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 175
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:01 PM
Actually, yes, it is all matter of observation. If you want to judge a person/company etc do not look for whatever is obvious, look for small details and decide whether you like them or not. I, for example, like an elitist and selective cultures, so for me tough barriers to entry is definitely a plus... Some people prefer less traditional and more open environment. It is whatever rocks your boat..
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catseye

Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 32
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:32 PM
Cant really say about any particular college, the perfect example of this is one of my senior and me.

Two years back my senior went to LSE with a Higher Second class in LLB degree and three years of work experience in a law firm whereas I passed my LLB with First Class and worked for 5 years (I also worked in the same law firm for 2 years plus worked in the legal departments of a financial institution)....

This year I applied only to LSE and Kings in the 3rd week of January, I was waitlisted at LSE and finally rejected and got accepted at Kings. Was initially upset but later I realised that Finance Law faculty at Kings is excellent so didnt lose much. Of course, I must admit that LSE has a better brand value in general and is very widely known (perhaps more for its economics)

I always assumed earlier, that when my senior can make it to LSE with higher second class, I would always stand a good chance with my credentials....So the moral of the story is that one must apply early and nothing can be said about any college.

Also dont forget this year it was more difficult to get in any good college coz the competition was very high. Most of the universities in US and UK received a record high application...thanks to the Recession!!!!
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CR1

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 109
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:59 PM
catseye: just to confirm you view on KCL finance law department, I was accepted to LSE and KCL but opted for the latter after some serious research concerning the teachers and the courses.
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FM1409

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 18
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Thu Sep 10, 2009 02:13 AM
Thanks you guys' comments, it's so informative, it seems that my chance in LSE is quite desparate. anyway, I will give a try.

thanks.
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Banking

Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 175
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Thu Sep 10, 2009 06:07 AM
Do not worry, Catseye...You fell victim of the desire of thge LSE to concentrate more on the UK and EU market...Remember I mentioned this in the past for a couple of unis and some members of the website accused me of things....The timing of your application made little difference because there is a tendency to reject earlier applicants thinking that the later ones would be better. The LLM programme stayed opened for quite a while. KCL (after all negative publicity) has made an effort to broaden its intake. I studied at the LSE and can say that KCL can easilly be perceived as a better brand for law. KCL is known for law and medicine, that's why you go their for...One would go to the LSE for economics, finance and related fields, politics and international relations. I do nit think they see law as a core competency. By the way, why did not you apply to Oxbridge-I think you would have a good chance...
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Banking

Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 175
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Thu Sep 10, 2009 06:09 AM
Sorry for spelling errors guys, difficut to type on balckberry
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Jeremy Bentham

Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 47
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Thu Sep 10, 2009 08:03 AM
Whether an accurate reflection of reality or not,I think it would be fair to say that internationally at least, LSE's brand name and reputation, including for law, comes behind only Oxbridge. In my own experience it is also harder to get into LSE. The students with 2 1s in my class went to Kings, those with 1sts more to LSE. However I think it really all depends on what one is studying-different unis are better in different areas of law. Both, along with UCL, are excellent law schools.
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Contextualized

Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Posts: 2
Admission of UCL, LSE, QMUL and KCL from Second Lower Class
Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:59 AM
Actually, yes, it is all matter of observation. If you want to judge a person/company etc do not look for whatever is obvious, look for small details and decide whether you like them or not. I, for example, like an elitist and selective cultures, so for me tough barriers to entry is definitely a plus... Some people prefer less traditional and more open environment. It is whatever rocks your boat..


I would just caution people on assuming that the Postgraduate admissions practices/guidelines/staff/traditions are the same in a univ/college's medical faculty as compared to a univ/college's law school (or, for that matter, their history department or psychology dept). From my time working in universities, I can say that they will usually be different staff, looking for different things, and prioritising different aspects of a person's application.

Insider knowledge about "elitism" and "selectivity" is only useful if it relates to the decision being made. Otherwise it's guff.
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CR1

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 109
King's/UCL and LSE in the top 10 for LLM's?
Fri Sep 11, 2009 04:36 PM
King's among world top 10 King’s School of Law has been ranked seventh in the world for its LLM programmes by Spanish employment magazine Expansión & Empleo and the legal pages of its website Expansion.com. The publications conducted a survey among the top Spanish law firms to find out where to train their best professionals. The ranking also took into account various international classifications such as the ones done by The Financial Times, US News, The Guardian and The Times as well as the one edited by Brian Leiter, professor at the University of Chicago and Director of the Centre of Law, Philosophy and Human Values. Among the top ten law schools are six from the United States, three from the UK and one from Belgium. The other two institutions to appear in the top ten alongside King’s are the London School of Economics and University College London.

[Edited by CR1 on 11 Sep 2009]
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joseph s

Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 8
King's/UCL and LSE in the top 10 for LLM's?
Mon Sep 28, 2009 07:58 PM
UCL is harder to get into than kings. UCL requires a good 2:1, so a bare 2:1 can be (and is often) rejected. It depends also on references/work/publications etc.. Kings is a 2:1/2:2 borderline entry. There are plenty of 2:2 degrees doing the LLM at KIngs, but it is still an excellent school.

In London, all the former University of London colleges have merit, but there is a ranking with UCL and the LSE very much at the top. Both UCL and the LSE consider that they compete with Oxbridge, rather than other London colleges, in terms of candidates for entry, their requirements and reputation/research rank etc. Whether this is borne out in reality may be debatable, but this is the position they take if you talk to admissions tutors and faculty.
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CR1

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 109
King's/UCL and LSE in the top 10 for LLM's?
Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:30 AM
UCL is probably better is international public law and legal theory and jurisprudence. KCL is better for finance law and competition law. Check the teachers and modules ......For the remaining specializations, both institutions are similar but UCL has a slightly better reputation in the UK while KCL has an edge is central Europe and Asia. LSE is obviously excellent but overrated for law (very reputable in the Americas) .

[Edited by CR1 on 29 Sep 2009]
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Russ


Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 207
King's/UCL and LSE in the top 10 for LLM's?
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:08 PM
I think CR1's assessment is fairly accurate.
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banker3

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 63
King's/UCL and LSE in the top 10 for LLM's?
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:48 PM
I would say that the last assessment is accurate as well. The specialization really matters and the partners in the UK firms know it. The majority would name UCL for PIL and legal theory and jurisprudence and perhaps commercial banking but KCL is normally the better choice among the 3 London schools for International Finance and Competition. LSE is strong in most of the fields but except in the Americas, its reputation is on par with UCL and KCL

[Edited by banker3 on 29 Sep 2009]
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FM1409

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 18
King's/UCL and LSE in the top 10 for LLM's?
Wed Sep 30, 2009 02:04 AM
I would like to know the standing of Intellectual Property Law among these three colleges. I once noted that QMUL was famous for its IP law.
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joseph s

Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 8
King's/UCL and LSE in the top 10 for LLM's?
Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:40 PM
UCL has the biggest LLM programme in the UK. The majority of students study corporate, banking, financial, commercial courses. But UCL is also known for PIL, Environmental, Public law, lP and legal theory.

[Edited by joseph s on 30 Sep 2009]
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pritt

Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 19
King's/UCL and LSE in the top 10 for LLM's?
Wed Sep 30, 2009 07:00 PM
Hello! Do you know if a Belgian degree with "distinction/cum laude" obtained for Master degree is acceptable for a LLM in UK?
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CR1

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 109
King's/UCL and LSE in the top 10 for LLM's?
Wed Sep 30, 2009 08:58 PM
@joseph: The biggest does not mean the best. You assumptions are not accurate as you can not generalize the way you did.
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Kerfuffle

Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 95
King's/UCL and LSE in the top 10 for LLM's?
Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:32 PM
UCL has the biggest LLM programme in the UK. The majority of students study corporate, banking, financial, commercial courses. But UCL is also known for PIL, Environmental, Public law, lP and legal theory.


Biggest in what respect? In terms of choice, LSE has a bigger selection of courses. In terms of the number of admissions, I'm not so sure who has the most (but the number of students certainly don't correlate with quality).

I wouldn't place UCL nor LSE on par with Oxbridge (certainly on teaching standards for some subjects). I also know of students who got into UCL and not into KCL, and vice versa - so I certainly wouldn't UCL has a higher standard of entry. If a student has a solid 2.1, they'll get into any college (particularly international students) - with the possible exception of LSE which has a huge brand name.

In reality, all the leading LLM colleges offer pretty much the same standard of education (just pick the one that offers you the best speciality).

[Edited by Kerfuffle on 30 Sep 2009]
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