http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826 en Most highly regarded internationally - LLM GUIDE Discussion Board Fri, 02 Dec 2005 09:35:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#8826 Hi everyone, I am trying to draw up a shortlist of unis that I should be looking at. So I am hoping everyone here can help me out by just stating listing the top five British universities / law schools (in order beginning with the highest). Please also state which country are you from and comment on whether your ranking reflects the perception in your own country. I think this will be generally helpful for most people. I'll start. 1. Oxford 2. Cambridge 3. LSE 4. UCL 5. King's College London I'm from Hong Kong, and I think this is quite an accurate reflection of their rank in Hong KOng. Sat, 03 Dec 2005 08:09:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#8847 1. Oxford 2. Cambridge 3. Big 3 in London; seen as roughly equal (UCL, LSE, KCL) I am from Malaysia, and I would say this reflects the opinion in Malaysia. Sun, 04 Dec 2005 05:37:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#8856 Hello..... Have you guys heard of a certain University called University of Warwick or is Hong-kong and Malasyia that outdated??? Tue, 06 Dec 2005 08:55:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#8887 Of course we have heard of Warwick. But the original post did ask for the 'top 5'. I would say Warwick, Durham, Nottingham and Bristol would come in Tier 3, below Oxbridge (Tier 1) and the Big 3 London colleges (Tier 2). Thu, 08 Dec 2005 22:37:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#8951 1. Cambridge 2. Oxford 3. Durham 4. UCL 5. LSE Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:03:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#8995 - Cambridge - Oxford - LSE - KC/ Imp Coll - Edinburgh Fri, 06 Jan 2006 18:24:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#9488 -UCL -Cambridge -Oxford -LSE -Durham Fri, 06 Jan 2006 22:37:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#9494 1. UCL 2. Oxford 3. Cambridge 4. Imperial 5. LSE Fri, 06 Jan 2006 22:41:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#9496 Imperial does not offer an LLM, though... Fri, 06 Jan 2006 22:44:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#9497 1st tier: Oxbridge, UCL 2nd tier: KCL, LSE 3rd tier: Nottingham, Durham, Bristol 4th tier: Others Fri, 06 Jan 2006 22:47:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#9498 People, it will help our understanding of your evaluation if you let us know what informed your grading/rankings of the schools. Why for instance is UCL better than Oxbridge? Fri, 13 Jan 2006 13:05:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#9671 Hello there, In France, the ranking should be something like : 1- Cambridge 2- Oxford 3- LSE 4- King's College London Others are not very known, i.e. the four Universities listed below are the ones French will probably aim to get at first glance. I know this is unfair for top Universities such as UCL or Durham and may not reflect the current UK ranking. Anyway, what is important for french recruiters is to have a LLM from a good University with a good and coherent content, i.e. they really look also the content of your LLM and do not focus only on the University. That is why even if French recruiters know especially the four Universities listed below, they are open to hire people from another Universities who made something interesting or rare. It appears also that LLM from the US are especially, not to say a bit more, popular and some (but not all) recruiters told me they really prefer US LLM from top 15 lawschools. I think the above should reflect the current trend in France. For information purpose, I have chosen to go to UCL just not to follow the trend....lol Cheers, Ronin Sun, 15 Jan 2006 17:16:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#9724 I think there is no doubt that Oxford's BCL is the most highly regarded by quite a distance. Similarly, the Cambridge LLM is clearly the next best regarded by quite a distance. After that, I would say that UCL edges out LSE for third. I couldn't comment beyond that point. Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:24:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#9798 Hi everyone! sorry guys but i regret to disagree with almost all of u! i seriously think that the supposed "big london" cannot be considered a 2nd choice after oxbridge! indeed i'd select them as a 3rd choice after universities such as Durham, Manchester and Nottingham. a serious and not superficial analysis wouldnt bring to a different result and this is also confirmed by rankings from the last 2 years. i guess london universities still enjoy huge reputation, but practically speaking there are better and more convenient alternatives. ciao for now Vincenzo Tue, 17 Jan 2006 21:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#9804 As far as UK schools go, I'm only interested in SOAS. Where do they fall on this list? Also, is it a relatively easy school to get into? (I'm a Canadian law grad) Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:19:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#9832 1. Cambridge 2. Oxford 3. Durham 4. Kings 5. LSE QM for IP Wed, 18 Jan 2006 17:48:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#9836 Dear Vincenzo, I think you have misread the question. The author is asking which institutions are the 'most highly regarded internationally', not which institutions do you think are the best in the UK. I for one would not have formulated the same table if it was the latter question. Sat, 21 Jan 2006 01:56:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#9939 i think you're right James, but then when it comes to "international reputation" why not just taking into account the Times and Guardian rankings, instead of being mislead by trend and fashion?? From my perspective and experience, i can tell you that in Italy for exemple people will always choose london as it's "fancy", regardless of rankings, reputation and convenience. said that i have to admit that there's a point of bias in my words as i'm doing my llm in manchester; it was one of the eight univs i applied for, none of them was based in london though. ciao for now Mon, 23 Jan 2006 07:30:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10035 Ciao Vin, I have to disagree. In Australia, the reputation and prestige is in London. This is ofcourse behind Oxford and Cambridge. Accordingly, Warwick is unheard of among many and thus does not carry the same panache. The uni's you metion are considered behind London. The city itself has much to do with it as London is full of international firms and thus most firms view a london degree favourably. I think the experience of living and potentially working in london is a huge factor. Manchester is the largest uni in the UK and has solid committment toi being a top 25 world uni. I am actually quite impressed by manchester and regret that I will not apply as they are very commercial orientated. Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:50:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10048 Accordingly, Warwick is unheard of among many and thus does not carry the same panache. ... hmmm, sayaks from Warwick Law School will hit back at your classification of Warwick. Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:32:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10050 popular perception in India would perhaps rank oxford at th top followed closely by cambridge..LSE would most likely occupy th third place..thez ranking perceptions are more or less shared by majority here.. however as far ranks fourth n fifth are concerned there could a wide mixture of views..for instance those who want to specialise in Interdisciplinary or developmental studies would anyday prefer Warwick or SOAS (as 4th and 5th),,then ther are others who think that there's no point studying in UK if you dont study in london!! and accordingly UCL & King's would occupy 4th and 5th slots.. in my friends circle UCL & Warwick both have great reputation for their respective fields.. Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10066 Hi friends, Where is all this leading us to? A reasonable person who wants to know the standings of any entity be it a university or anything else for that matter will look up the relevant standard appraising body for that particular filed. Perceptions are one thing and reality can be pretty different. Granted that elite institutions have thir own aura perhaps there may not be much to differentiate between nth ranked and n+1 th ranked institute and what may matter more is the qualities of the individual -- not that I am saying anything profound or remotely near it but what exactly are we trying to arrive at in this thread. Not meant to tread on any ones feelings please. Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:39:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10070 I am trying to draw up a shortlist of unis that I should be looking at. What is your career goal? What subjects do you wish to study to take reach it? Where do you want to work in the world? I presume you want to study in the UK rather than via distanc learning? Some higher education institutions have supreme law faculties or schools, but only specialise in particular subject areas; other HEIs will have very good relationships with certain countries, and the graduates always do very well there, but not so in others. Your goal should be to first consider your career ambitions then limit your choice of institutions based on that selection, rather than the other way round. Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:04:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10144 Hi, my take on your querry basing on most perceptions around African countries that i have visited is as follows; 1Cambridge 2.Oxford 3.LSE 4.UCL 5.Manchester Others like warwick,Durham,Birmingham ,SOAS and Bristol round up the other slots. This inforamtion however becomes relevant only after you have identified your LLM because not all these universities have similar programmes. As for pappu or whatever his signature is,perceptions will count when a scholar finally returns to their country because employers out here also thrive on perception. Greetings from Uganda Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:07:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10147 Accordingly, Warwick is unheard of among many and thus does not carry the same panache. ... hmmm, sayaks from Warwick Law School will hit back at your classification of Warwick. He or she can hit back as much as they like. I'm only stating a fact. I never heard of Warwick before my LLM search nor have any of my friends. It may be very good but it lacks prestige. Tue, 24 Jan 2006 12:24:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10148 Hi, my take on your querry basing on most perceptions around African countries that i have visited is as follows; 1Cambridge 2.Oxford 3.LSE 4.UCL 5.Manchester Others like warwick,Durham,Birmingham ,SOAS and Bristol round up the other slots. This inforamtion however becomes relevant only after you have identified your LLM because not all these universities have similar programmes. As for pappu or whatever his signature is,perceptions will count when a scholar finally returns to their country because employers out here also thrive on perception. Greetings from Uganda No Edinburgh or Kings? Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:59:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10190 Hi, as i had pointed out before,you as an individual have to first of all choose a programme. you can then proceed to look at these universities.You will also note that the universities that fall in the top ten or top twenty for that matter will have little or nothing between them. Kings has recieved some good reviews over the years but as for reputation the earlier list actually still stands. Edinburgh is a pretty good university as it and Glasgow are power houses in their area.These however are widely percieved as mostly academic and not practical. Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:23:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10207 Accordingly, Warwick is unheard of among many and thus does not carry the same panache. This shows your and your friends' ignorance.If you like millions other believe in "all that glitters is gold" then go ahead and fall in the pitfalls destined for people like you.Dig beneath the surface,question,analyze, collect information from reliable people,people those who have studied/studying at the various institutions. For your information I had got through 14 universities in UK and chose Warwick over all others because of certain reasons. Make whatever you are capable making out of it. Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:07:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10212 ...Sayaks hits back!!! I warned you! Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:35:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10223 Hey sayaks, dont get emotional. Like gaya says, its all perception, the real thing might be way different. I feel you though - a UK education (even in Warwick) is expensive and it doesnt do your ego any good for someone to so easily put down what you are paying so much for! But you would agree that altho u gave up 14 universities for Warwick, schools like Oxbridge, UCL and LSE were not on the list of 14... Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:33:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10225 Yep - u told me so bardiva ;-) Sayaks - relax. This is not ignorance, it is general perception. I'm sorry but you cannot change the prestige of Warwick; it is unheard of here in Australia. I asked around about Warwick and no one knew what it was. Afew guys thought it was a fictional character from Witches of Eastwick. I'm sure it has a world class rep in Europe. But, not here in Oz. This thread is "most highly regarded internationally". Also, choose your words more wisely mate. No ignorance just perception. Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:15:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10233 Sorcerer initiated this thread thus: "Hi everyone, I am trying to draw up a shortlist of unis that I should be looking at. So I am hoping everyone here can help me out by just stating listing the top five British universities / law schools (in order beginning with the highest). Please also state which country are you from and comment on whether your ranking reflects the perception in your own country. " From there where are we heading to? Is so much of argument neccessary? one may be open to the fact that just because one has not heard of Euler or Lagrange they are non existant or nondescript . May one ask what is the research methodology used in coming to a lot of generalisations which are being pontificated all round. What is the sample size? What means of testing of the hypothsis has been done? Questions galore -- with very few convincing and reliable substantiation. Perceptions matter a great deal granted ,but whose perceptions is the question and as students of law whose evidence is acceptable need not be elaborated here. There are still people who beleive that that the earth is flat but I am sure it does not make it so. I can understand Sayaks taking umbrage, nobody likes his alma mater to be taken lightly and with great respect to the various people anyone worth his salt with regard to legal education in UK would know that Warwick is good by any yardstick. I will be surprised if someone or the other does not lambast me. !!! Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:46:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10237 James UCL and Kings were there in the list of 14 univs.As far as LSE is concerned I already had a senior of mine studying there and whatever LSE might me good for, LLM is not its mug of beer. Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:52:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10238 Capa I am as relaxed as an Australian in a sunny beach with a Fosters in hand. Caution needs to be exercised when dealing with potentially controversial/emotive subjects. You and "your mates" around you have a twisted sense of perception. I was saving this for the last and please devour it now. RAE is the only Government agency drawing up a list of Reputed unis every 5/6/7 years on behalf of the UK government.Please do lark around in the vast world of internet a little bit more and find out Warwick's RAE ranking. I am more than sure that prospective students from Australia will be guided by hard and reliable facts and not by sparrings of people like us. Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:39:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10261 Sayaks, pipe down - these guys are just pulling your legs waiting to see your reaction. And you re falling for it! Warwicks is a good school(even if I think you over rate it), so ignore the jibes! Ha! Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:47:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10264 I think some of you people to chill a little! :-) Why get so stressed out and hostile in these forums? For the record: 1. I don't think questions like 'which unis are the most highly regarded internationally' are redundant and worthless. On the contrary, I think it is extremely helpful to potential LLM students. For my part, I came here to seek views when I had to choose where to go, and I daresay I received a lot of useful advice/views, which were valuable in helping me choose Harvard over Oxford. 2. I think there is nothing wrong at all with 'perception'. Indeed, with regards to university rankings, 'perception' is sometimes more important than 'facts'. The latest Guardian rankings tell me that Manchester is a better law school than Cambridge - do you think anyone in the UK (or anywhere else) will believe that? The 2001 RAE law ranking puts Keele ahead of King's College London - again, does that matter? Magic Circle law firms will continue to target their traditional universities, irrespective of which universities have 'better teaching quality'. Prestige is very important in a law school, all the more so for international students. In Hong Kong, UCL and KCL law graduates dominate the judiciary and the Bar - so, of course these universities are more 'prestigious' there. By definition, the prestige of a law school is necessarily subjective. What the original poster asked for was a (necessarily subjective) view of individuals as to which law schools in England were regarded as prestigious in various countries. This is extremely important to a person who plans to return to his home country. For example, however outstanding a law school Durham might be, if it is completely unheard of by the 'ignorant' people of Ruritania, then a Durham LLM is not very useful to a person from Ruritania. Conversely, if UCL is highly regarded by the 'ignorant' people of Ruritania (who are 'foolish' enough not to know how 'poorly taught' the UCL LLM is), then a UCL LLM is nonetheless more useful to a person from Ruritania. With regards to prestige, there is no right or wrong. Fri, 27 Jan 2006 03:48:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10267 Kazaf - nice answer! Also, congrats on Harvard admission!!! I think most of us would love to have that option! Harvard or Oxford... Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:32:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10272 Hiya Bechham...you thought I did not know that? LOL... But just wanted to make sure that prospective students visiting the site(who presumably are greenhorns) do not limit their choices based on the glitz of London. Kazaf your post is nice and realistic.A good read. Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:57:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10287 Kazaf, nice post. Would have been perfect but for your erroneous calssification of UCL's LLM as being poorly taught. Nothing could be farther from the truth and you do great lecturers like Michael Bridge, Ronald Dworking, Ian Fletcher and Philippe Sands such injustice by so putting down a programme which they teach! Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:03:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10291 As a matter of fact how many people know that there are very few classes to attend and very few exams to give in the UCL LLM? A batch-mate of mine from my Indian Law school is studying in the present batch and she is far from being happy or impressed about the course. Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:16:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10294 Kazaf, nice post ! Well, of course this debate is emotionnal, we all defend our colours, fair enough. In my contribution (french ranking), I tried to be objective, so I would like to answer to sayaks as regards UCL objectively, if I can. Of course, some students in UCL are disapointed by their subject, some of those subjects being not very good it seems. However, most students I know have found their happiness in commercial law subjects at UCL. Anyway It is objectively difficult not to be impressed by the quality of teaching of Graham Penn or Basil Markesinis for eg, or Jan Dalhuisen at KCL. To say the truth, I was a litlle worried when I came to LLM regarding the quality of teaching, being from a top ranking university in France with awesome academics (honest!) and having worked during a year (which made me more demanding). But classes I took at UCL, after carefully selected them, are really good and I am happy and proud to be from such University. Cheers, Ronin Sat, 28 Jan 2006 04:11:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10299 UCL is a world class school. Law firms seem to love it. Nuff said. They must be doing something right. Sat, 28 Jan 2006 05:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10301 Kazaf, nice post. Would have been perfect but for your erroneous calssification of UCL's LLM as being poorly taught. Nothing could be farther from the truth and you do great lecturers like Michael Bridge, Ronald Dworking, Ian Fletcher and Philippe Sands such injustice by so putting down a programme which they teach! Bardiva, I think you misunderstood my post. The words 'foolish' and 'poorly taught' were in quotation marks! Of course I know and think that UCL has an excellent law programme. I read for my LLB at UCL, and I was taught by Bridge, Dworkin and Fletcher! I believe (and indeed, this view reflects that of many UK law firms and academics) that UCL has the best law school in England after Oxbridge. :-) Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:55:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10303 Hello Everyone, Am very new in this discussion group, so if this has been discussed and trashed out before- forgive the ignorance. Thank you for everyone's perceptions on the top 5, though what i would relly like to know is that with regard to placements, which of these institutions really help. This includes both internships during the course and final placements as well. I ask because after the LLM, I would ideally like to work in the UK. Any inputs? Mercury Sat, 28 Jan 2006 17:29:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10304 Hey Mercury, I think we need more information before we can help you. What field do you want to go into? What area of law do you want to work in? Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:11:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10309 Guys, the hare which Sorcerer started running a while ago has run its full course! We have read views from almost every continent - from the ridiculous to the sublime. We may not have reached any consensus on which schools are in the top 5, but we all have learnt one or two little things about the different English Law schools and their reputations in diverse places. That said, I suggest we turn our compass to another side of the equation. Since we could not by any means agree on which English schools are the best for a prospective LLM, let us pursue this inquiry from the standpoint of which schools are a no-go area for prospective LLMs in terms of the overall (poor) quality of their LLM programmes. I will go first - I am from Hong kong and I would say that Nottingham Trent (mind you - NOT the University of Nottingham) has a really shabby reputation around here. Any other views? Please let us know your academic background and which country you are from. Sat, 28 Jan 2006 21:42:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10311 Yawn..... Sun, 29 Jan 2006 07:56:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10314 Hello James007, I'm most interested in a corporate and commercial LLM. I want to understand if UK placement s work the same way as they do in most places in India, where the college gives little help, and you're mostly on your own to get a good placement. A good college name goes a long way. Sun, 29 Jan 2006 21:48:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10321 What Sayaks - you afraid some is going to name Warwick amongst the tail end of the league? Just kidding! I do agree with the first part of Bruce Lee's post - Sorcerer's hare has run its FULL course. Lets drop this whole issue and leave the rating of Educational institutions in the UK to the RAE. The entire debate is becoming boring! Mercury - to understand if UK placements work the same was as they do in India, we need to understand the Indian system. Apart from Sayaks (maybe) most of us dont know the way things work in India so u may wish to volunteer more info. Having said that, I wish to point out that the UK LL.M is (to the best of my knowledge) a mostly classroom based course. LL.M students do not get posted to Law Firms or Corporate Organisations as part of the programme. I say this because you mentioned something about the College helping people get placements. If however you mean get jobs AFTER the LL.M, then I can confirm that the career offices of most UK Universities offer a useful free service to LL.M students regarding Career planning and job hunting. Hope this is a bit useful. Please feel free to expound on your question if you need further advice. Sun, 29 Jan 2006 22:12:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10322 Well...as James has exteded the baton to me, I take it upon myself to shed some dazzling light on your(Jame's) specific query. I think you should know that an Indian LLB degree holds no water in this land and even after doing your LLM you are not considered as a qualified lawyer in UK. Thus,at the end of the day all you are qualified to do is a para-legal job and majority of the firms DO NOT even consider non-EU International students. If you wish to practice in UK as a solicitor/barrister there are 3 different ways of doing the same and none of them require an LLM degree. Most good unis(career services) will actively assist students in chiselling their qualities and brushing up their CVs but they would not arrange interviews for you. The application procedure in this country is 95% online and students are expected to apply directly in the firms of their choice. I hope this helps you in forming a rough about the subject of your query. Mon, 30 Jan 2006 03:28:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10328 I think the majority of people have agreed that the best schools in the UK are Oxford and Cambridge. Then, a mixture of the prestigious schools in UK - notably, the ancient and red brick uni's and London colleges. It goes without saying that the glass plate and newly developed universities have the worst reputation. Oh and Sayaks - we Aussies dont drink fosters, we just export the stuff. Ironically, i'd prefer a heineken on the beach mate!. Also, I had a look and The Times ranks Warwick at number 14 in law the Guardian number 12 - what rankings were you talking about, i'd like to see them. Although, this is interesting: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/displayPopup/0,,69987,00.html It just says Warwick is ranked 3rd behind Oxbridge and equal to LSE. Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:52:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10333 hmmm...not again. This topic is becoming boring Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:15:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10334 James and Sayaks, Thanks so much for the input....is that really the case though, cause i know of scores of Indian students with LLMs in UK and subsequent jobs as well. In any event, as you said, a lot depends on the university one studies in. I already mentioned I was interested in Corporate and commercial LLM. In the top 5 that were listed (I can hear the "not agains"!!), can I please know which ones cater to this specific course. I'm coming from the fact that universities and institutions are better known for only selected courses. There may be other schools, not specifically discussed as the top 5, which also offer great corporate and commercial courses. Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:28:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10335 Correction - keep reading. ;) Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:27:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10371 Well i wholly agree that kazarf did justice to the ongoing thread but allow me to add the following;i was under the assumption that all the members are in one way or the other connected to the legal proffesion which would make the aspects of perception,prestige and reputation rather common to all.This cleary isn't the case. Why for example are firms like Baker & Mackenzie, Jonesday ,white and case,sullivan and cromwell,Allen &Overy and many more around the world considered better than others?The answer is simple,Over the years these firms have worked hard to give the best services to their clients which in turn has allowed the public to percieve them as the best hence reputaion.This analogy is reflective of the law schools as well. Lastly and more importantly, not all of us stay or live in these cities so most of the information on this site is all we have to guide our decisions.To some of you out there some question may sound stupid but to most LLM candidates around the world its priceless info.So please this is a round table set aside for the learned,let our discussions reflect the same. Am sure if all these universities were in Africa,questions about housing,perception and more wouldn't seem so stupid afterall coz then you would all be strangers. Greetings from Uganda Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:53:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10386 Capa Seeing the general mood prevailing in this thread at this point of time, I would not like to invoke widespread ire from all the other contributors, even though I would have been more than happy to cross swords with you regarding your last post. Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:36:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10392 Sayaks, good decision. Wed, 01 Feb 2006 10:34:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10411 Looooorrrrrrrrddddddddd!!!!!!!!!!!....U guys are great!!... loving the whole debate thing going on!!!!!!!:-) Wed, 01 Feb 2006 10:57:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10413 I already mentioned I was interested in Corporate and commercial LLM. In the top 5 that were listed (I can hear the "not agains"!!), can I please know which ones cater to this specific course. I'm coming from the fact that universities and institutions are better known for only selected courses. There may be other schools, not specifically discussed as the top 5, which also offer great corporate and commercial courses. This is the kind of development for this discussion that will find particularly helpful answers, even if only those who are interested in corporate or commercial law are the ones who will find it useful. For different subjects, different universities are the recognised leaders and in some cases no matter how good or bad the general perception of a particular University is, the smallest detail, down to the course tutors, can greatly enhance or detract from the value of the degree in the eyes of some potential employers. Wed, 01 Feb 2006 11:15:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10414 An Australian perspective: Tier 1 Oxford Cambridge Tier 2 LSE Tier 3 UCL KCL As for the others, Warwick, Durham, Manchester and the ilk have almost no mind share here. I would rather go to the US and do a LLM at Chicago than waste my time going to the UK to attend Warwick or Durham. Wed, 01 Feb 2006 11:18:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10415 I think that's a bit harsh!!! They are good universities...and I dont think they're a waste of time!!They may not be the best, but certainly not a waste of time, and they are quite good here. Oh well...I guess it's your opinion..... Wed, 01 Feb 2006 11:46:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10417 An Australian perspective: Tier 1 Oxford Cambridge Tier 2 LSE Tier 3 UCL KCL As for the others, Warwick, Durham, Manchester and the ilk have almost no mind share here. I would rather go to the US and do a LLM at Chicago than waste my time going to the UK to attend Warwick or Durham. I'd have to agree with that ... almost. Although, I think Durham and Manchester might be okay. Warwick is unknown here - better off at Birmingham, Bristol, Sheffield or Essex, or, (for Europe) Lund, Stockholm, Leiden etc. These schools have very good reps down under. Certainly Edinburgh has a top notch rep - only behind Oxford, Cambridge, UCL and LSE (and maybe Kings). These schools have world class reps. Sayaks - This is my opinion so get over it and move on. The reputation of schools are vital knowledge for people who need to travel from, say, Australia to Europe (take a year off and who knows how much in tuition and living expenses after financial aid). This is a very important decision and i'm going to give my honest opinion and debate it so I myself am conviced I am applying to the best schools. Dont forget, on every letter, on your business card, there will be this: LLM (*******). Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:28:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10422 I think that's a bit harsh!!! They are good universities...and I dont think they're a waste of time!! And if I doesnt help me in my career in Australia, why should I care ? I would not want to waste a year and an absolute fortune doing a LLM at Manchester or Warwick if I can go to Chicago instead. Heck, even a LLM from Sydney Uni would probably be of more use to me than a LLM from Warwick. Sydney Uni is highly regarded locally while Warwick is a virtual unknown. My eventual goal is the BCL at Oxford, the LLM at Harvard or Yale or if I dont make the grade, the LLM at Cambridge or Chicago. At the moment, I am merely a wet behind the years, second year LLB in Australia, student who is about to start the BA (Jurisprudence ) at Oxford in a few months. Wed, 01 Feb 2006 13:14:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10426 Fair enough, I see your point: In Australia Warwick, Durham etc are not recognised and as such you feel it would be a waste of your time. I just dont think it's universal. So lets conclude that an LLM at Warwick etc is useless in Australia.(bold and underlined) :-) Wed, 01 Feb 2006 13:44:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10429 Provocations galore.... Australia's size is the same as a big state in India.Who cares a fig about a uni's reputation in Australia? Do something all you Aussies.Contact an American(a fairly knowledgeable one and not of your ilk) and ask him about Warwick and then see what he has to say. And if you guys did not know,a uni is considered to have good reputation if it is higly regarded in USA.No one cares about Australia and the pereception of students out there. The world is not restricted and influenced by "down south". Eat and digest this. Wed, 01 Feb 2006 13:50:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10430 Hee hee hee. lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wed, 01 Feb 2006 14:21:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10435 Australia's size is the same as a big state in India. Yes, and where are the Indian universities ranked? Where do all the major asia-pacific firms have their head offices? An Australian firm is the largest firm in Asia!. Our firms know international reputations. Who cares a fig about a uni's reputation in Australia? I do. I plan to come back here. Further, it also exemplifies the international reputation and glitz of certain universities. I think Australia is underestimated. Look at The Times (THES) university rankings - um, any Indian universities? Australia is also significantly globalised and its universities have links to many overseas institutions. Further, I have had a chat with a visiting American professor who suggests the opposite of what you say. Sayak, stop trying to elevate Warwick's reputation. It has no historical prestige, nor is it reflected well in the international rankings or league tables (given the emphasis in the US on rankings, use your imagination on what a US alwyer would say). Get over it. It may be a top notch course that produces the best lawyers in the universe but the fact remains it has no prestige - a top tier firm will not be drawn in by it. Hope you guys are enjoying this ;) Wed, 01 Feb 2006 15:21:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10438 ...sayaks, u had it coming. told ya to let it roll. These provocating australians will taunt you until you re out of breath. give it up mate! they will lose interest if you dont respond. Besides, they re just giving an opinion, which isnt worth much to you! cho! Wed, 01 Feb 2006 15:42:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10441 Hope you guys are enjoying this ;) Oh yea!!!..This is crazy...everyone thinks the best of their uni..its ok!!!!....We shd all just look at the major rankings to place the LLM!(Apart from the Guardian one-says Bradford is in top ten for law...Bradford DOESN'T HAVE A LAW DEPT!!!) Funny. Everyone shd just chill out! Wed, 01 Feb 2006 16:55:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10447 Lol - you guys are so funny! I actually had a good laugh reading through all this. Wed, 01 Feb 2006 19:19:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10452 1."Sayaks, Stop your ridiculous trolling for Warwick.. U R embarrassing yourself man..seriously."(Runkebulle) 2."Sayak, stop trying to elevate Warwick's reputation."(Capa) I have never ever even remotely attempted to elevate Warwick's reputation beyond what it deserves.I have always tried to provide prospective LLM students with a broader perspective which is not restricted to TIER 1 unis (and I quote assorted individuals here).A good and prestigious institution does not need to be endorsed by specific individuals to retain its glory. "It may be a top notch course that produces the best lawyers in the universe but the fact remains it has no prestige - a top tier firm will not be drawn in by it. "(Capa) Capa these questions are specifically aimed at you.Have you ever come down to UK?Have you ever studied in a reputed insitution in UK?Have you interacted with the best law firms in UK(which in my humble opinion have a far more international presence than the Australian law firms in general)? Kazaf might agree with me when I say that the best law firms in UK flock to the Warwick campus to recruits law students from here. And if you ever do come down to UK never ever(and I repeat) never ever,venture to open your big Heineken guzzling mouth to suggest that Warwick lacks prestige lest others think that you generally shoot from your arse. My comparsion of the size of an Indian state with the size of Australia was subjective but it seems to have tickled your nationalistic fervour to such an extent that you have not stopped from rambling about the ranking of Indian unis.Dude,neither my back is turned against reality nor do I shy away from accepting the truth(however might harsh it be). If you ever intend to argue in a real court-room(which is vastly different from engaging in a virtual warfare) then please do stick to the facts of the case and points under consideration lest you are rebuked by the presiding judge. "ps. Comparing a banana state to Australia tells us that you are running out of arguments.." Runkebulle if I could, I would definitely have wanted to peek into your mind and see which fibres are missing.Your comment is so misconstrued that commenting on it would equate to humiliating myself. Turning to Cafa, have you ever heard of something called The Russell Group?Why do I have to keep on reminding you to be thorough with your research( and that means turning your eyes away from the TIMES ranking,albeit a while) before hurrying to type a reply? "Hope you guys are enjoying this ;) "(Capa) I have always endeavoured to engage in structured debates abd arguments.But if providing means of enjoyment to the visitors of this site(which includes your fellow Aussies) is your aim and purpose then you very well are making a good job of it. Wed, 01 Feb 2006 22:03:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10462 With temperatures soaring this summer, particularly in southern Australia, snakes are on the move. People are being warned to keep their eyes open out in the paddock, especially in areas hit by bushfires, with snakes forced from their usual habitat. Maria Dovey from Reptile Rescue Tasmania has these words of advice. "Any people who are regularly outdoors, whether they be camping, bush walking, people who're on the land working, they must always carry at least two bandages with them and a mobile phone," she said. "The worst thing you can do, regardless of having bandaged, is walk out. You stay put. Moral of the story is, bandage and wait, someone's going to come for you sooner or later." Wed, 01 Feb 2006 23:35:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10465 LOL! God this thread is so funny! What started out as an astute debate has turned into right bitch fest! It seems that Sayak is taking on everybody; and by posting threads such as 'stuck in Warrick' himself also. But I am going to come to the assistance of our prickly Indian friend. He is right in saying that Warwick is a top institution in the UK. Anyone from the UK will tell you that. It boasts some of the best academics in the country such as Garry Watt and Graham Muffatt. In which case, cut the guy some slack! I also think the tone of some of the posts has been rude and has warranted some of his belligerent responses. Is there really any need to wind our friend up so much? It can't be good for his health. Rich xx Thu, 02 Feb 2006 03:04:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10475 Sayaks - time to get a grip. Like I have said before, we're talking about INTERNATIONAL reputation. I am not going to reply to any more of your ridiculous arguments - if indeed they can be called arguments. Your constant bickering lacks credibility and exemplifies your purspose is to simply elevate the reputation of the institution for your own self gratification. Do not, I REPEAT, do not talk crap like this because some young law students might read these forums with interest and be persuaded by biased comments. Oh, and keep taking my bate - as you say, you are the king of litigation (pfft yeah right!). Your skills are well apparent here. Anyway, enough said. Warwick lacks INTERNATIONAL reputation. Case closed. All rise and order in the forum. Thu, 02 Feb 2006 07:53:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10488 Hi you all,this thread has all the hallmarks of a classic, you guys are cracking my rib cage!Sayaks for what it's worth, those who may not have heard about Warwick before will certainly do now. Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:44:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10493 gava...I certainly agree....anyone who did not know of Warwick...sure does now!!!!!!!!!!!!:-) Thu, 02 Feb 2006 11:53:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10495 I wonder how much Warick are paying him? It must be a large fee! LOL Rich xx Thu, 02 Feb 2006 12:33:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10502 Seriously.....I check this forum every 15 minutes now..coz it is sooooooooooo entertaining!!! I wish I had the same level of loyalty to Leeds!!! :-) Thu, 02 Feb 2006 12:38:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10505 Capa Talking crap is what you have a masters in,not me.Read my posts in sequence and try to glean out the point I am trying to make. Your replies are insipid and off the mark and at times higly obnoxious.But unlike you I do not attempt to forclose an argument by writing in blocks and trying to act smart.(But then that is an Australian trait,ai'nt it?) Thu, 02 Feb 2006 12:40:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10506 Go Sayak! Go Sayak! Go Sayak! Go Sayak! LOL Thu, 02 Feb 2006 12:42:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10507 ummmmmmmmmmmmm................. Thu, 02 Feb 2006 12:44:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10508 LOL! THE MAN WE LOVE TO HATE IS BACK TO HIS PRICKLY BEST!!!!!!!!!! Thu, 02 Feb 2006 13:23:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10510 Capa Talking crap is what you have a masters in,not me.Read my posts in sequence and try to glean out the point I am trying to make. Your replies are insipid and off the mark and at times higly obnoxious.But unlike you I do not attempt to forclose an argument by writing in blocks and trying to act smart.(But then that is an Australian trait,ai'nt it?) LOL!!!! I'm not even going to touch that one. Steriotyping nationalities as a substitute for a credible argument ... PRICELESS. ARGUMENT FORECLOSED IN BLOCKS. Thu, 02 Feb 2006 13:37:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10513 Heard of something called humorous jibe? Now I have only myself to blame for engaging in an argument with an imbecile whose mental faculties are not yet fully developed. Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10517 An incapacity to pursue civilised debate... PRICELESS. Do you have any proper arguments? Remember, we are talking about Warwick, not Australia, not my mental capacity, WARWICK. Keep it RELEVANT. rel·e·vant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rl-vnt) adj. 1: Having a bearing on or connection with the matter at hand. 2: Having a bearing on or connection with the subject at issue; "the scientist corresponds with colleagues in order to learn about matters relevant to her own research" [ant: irrelevant] 2: having crucial relevance; "crucial to the case"; "relevant testimony" [syn: crucial]. ir·rel·e·vant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-rl-vnt) adj. 1: Sayak's comments (all of them) [insert picture of Sayak] tosser (-tos-a) 1: Sayak. ARGUMENT FORECLOSED IN BLOCKS. Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:29:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10518 LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:45:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10520 Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....This is amazing...classic....priceless.... lol Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:58:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10523 An incapacity to pursue civilised debate... PRICELESS. Do you have any proper arguments? Remember, we are talking about Warwick, not Australia, not my mental capacity, WARWICK. Keep it RELEVANT. rel·e·vant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rl-vnt) adj. 1: Having a bearing on or connection with the matter at hand. 2: Having a bearing on or connection with the subject at issue; "the scientist corresponds with colleagues in order to learn about matters relevant to her own research" [ant: irrelevant] 2: having crucial relevance; "crucial to the case"; "relevant testimony" [syn: crucial]. ir·rel·e·vant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-rl-vnt) adj. 1: Sayak's comments (all of them) [insert picture of Sayak] tosser (-tos-a) 1: Sayak. ARGUMENT FORECLOSED IN BLOCKS. Should have known that a dictionary is your constant companion for reasons not unknown to any.(Emphasis supplied) Thu, 02 Feb 2006 15:05:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10524 hi again everyone...seems as i was missing something! well let's try to get back on track... from an oz perspective, that is to say from a common law background, i agree with the australian guys when they say that its not worth going oversee if not for oxbridge. but said that, i would prefere an llm in sydney or melbourne to any london llm. as u mentioned some australian institutions have great reputation and if u plan going back there, no point investing so much money in europe. by the way i'd never study in the US, as a matter of culture, of principle, of self respect, i'd rather study in the remotest and less regarded univ in the world. as far as i love australia, i really hope it will stay away and far from any american cultural interfearence. from a european point of view though (or indian maybe) i think we can say that the range of good choices, as far as uk univs are concerned, is very very broad! in italy there's nothing like an llm (whatever in florence is crap!) and i have some belgian friends here who never took under consideration the school of Brugge. even if u look at law firms recruiters - even top firms - they dont mind taking ppl from leeds, newcastle, norwich, essex and many other institutions. furthermore they recruit also a number of non-law students for training contracts, so basically they dont just look at the academic aspect of a cv. ciao for now, om satnam! Thu, 02 Feb 2006 15:46:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10526 Guys, when I strted this thread, I never for once imagined that it will be turned into a virtual boxing duel between the gents from Aussie and the energetic indian: Sayaks - who through a brilliant piece of advocacy, has tried to elevate Warwick Law School (the very institution he had lamented being "stuck with" in previous posts) to an internationally recognised institution. Henceforth, Capa and his friends would have no excuse for confusing Warwick with a fictional character in the Witches of Eastwich. Having said that, can we cease the useless dissipation of energy on this mundane topic (Warwick is a good UK school; its int'l reputation is non-existent) and concentrate on more important issues. Eg. Funding. What avenues, for instance, should an asian or an african pursue in search of funds for the exorbitant fees and living expenses required for a UK LL.M. Thu, 02 Feb 2006 16:07:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10527 I have been reading and following this thread that I started with keen interest. Quite entertaining, I must say! Btw, I just thought I should mention. To the person posting the message just above me; I don\'t quite see your motive in impersonating me. You are Sorcerer[.] with a full stop at the end; I (who started this threa) am just plain Sorcerer. You obviously registered that account just to post that one message (impersonating me), since you have only one post thus far. In principle, I don\'t see what is the big argument about. Warwick does have a good reputation as a law school in England, but from my understanding, even in England, it\'s prestige is not as high as Oxbridge and the London colleges (whether deservedly or not). But this does not mean that Warwick is NOT a good law school - it is! However, when we talk about reputations in individual countries, surely there is no right or wrong (like Kazaf said). I asked for the unis most highly regarded in various countries, and so individuals from various countries replied. Capa and the Australians gave their honest view of the UK unis reputation in Australia - that is just so. Same in HK - Oxbridge and the 3 London colleges are substantially more well-regarded than Warwick or Durham, etc. I think it is wrong to say that all Australian and Hong Kong people are \'ignorant\' just because our perceptions are different. This was a subjective question, and so the answers are subjective. Especially since our perceptions are not completely inconsistent with the perceptions in England itself. Thu, 02 Feb 2006 16:16:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10529 Now people are impersonating other people?!????....What has this lovely thread come to????To the first Sorcerer...dont tell them to end it..it's fun!!!...To the second..and original....why would the first impersonate you?? Was it to end the thread??...This is even more interesting...beats working on my dissertation!..lol Thu, 02 Feb 2006 17:05:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10533 I suggest that our rude, Australien fellows attend Faculty of law, University of Tromsø, Norway. It is a good law school with no international reputation whatsoever.. And the climate would definitively chill them down. Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:58:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10551 I can't really comment on Warwick law school, as I am a business student. However, Warwick university is considered one of the three best universities in the UK for business and it's MBA program is one of the most renowned in Europe (internationally!). Just check out these links: http://www.find-mba.com/england http://specials.ft.com/spdocs/be2005_globalmba_2005.pdf http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/gooduniversityguide2005/20business.pdf Thu, 02 Feb 2006 22:17:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10556 “Guys, when I strted this thread, I never for once imagined that it will be turned into a virtual boxing duel between the gents from Aussie and the energetic indian: Sayaks - who through a brilliant piece of advocacy, has tried to elevate Warwick Law School (the very institution he had lamented being "stuck with" in previous posts) to an internationally recognized institution.” You just have to love our little Indian friend! He’s gone undercover!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nobody would write that apart from him. How low can you get. He could be any of us – what a fucking chilling thought! LOL Finally some points of advice for our fellow users: • Lock your doors if you live near Coventry. • If you were thinking of attending Warwick don’t (not for academic reasons but for safety reasons). • If you see any out of character comments from other members check to see if they spell ‘started’ – ‘strted’ it could be him. Also, check for ‘Warwick’ references. • Any answers by people that are completely off topic could also be him. Good luck and stay safe, Rich xx Thu, 02 Feb 2006 22:29:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10557 M8, you are wicked!!! LOL!!! Hell hath no fury like an indian infuriated - Sayaks would be full of fury when he reads your allegations!!! Anyway, give it to Sayaks, he knows when to fight and when to beat a retreat!!! Thu, 02 Feb 2006 23:01:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10559 LOL!!! You are far too funny Rich. That Sayaks has gone crazy if he is 'Sorcerer.' ...and your right it is low! Thu, 02 Feb 2006 23:13:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10560 Come on guys! Why should Sayaks write: ...Sayaks - who through a brilliant piece of advocacy, has tried to elevate Warwick Law School (the very institution he had lamented being "stuck with" in previous posts) to an internationally recognised institution... Doesn't make sense. Thu, 02 Feb 2006 23:46:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10564 It does if you read all the crazy stuff he has posted on here. Who else would agree with all the out of context comments he has posted on here? Nobody in their right mind would have posted that message. Only a crazy person would be so stupid to think it could fool us all. Besides - there is no motive for anybody else to write it. Everybody finds Sayaks banter funny. As Sherlock Holmes reminded Dr Watson, when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. I would reject all the alternative analyses, which I find unconvincing for the reasons I have already endeavoured to explain, and hold Socerer. to be non other that the miscreant 'Sayaks.' Fri, 03 Feb 2006 02:51:00 +0200 http://www.llm-guide.com/board/8826/last#10568 To the sundry allegations flying by thick and fast and the 'intelligent' conclusions drawn by few enlightened gentlemen I have only one piece of advice,"stop your fertile imaginations running amock before you loose a grip on reality".(And maybe it is high time to put aside Sherlock Holme's lest next I hear gentle murmurs about matching my fingerprints with the dubious impersonating Sorcerer.) I need not take an alias(or a different user name) or prod or p.m. other users to cocur with me. It amazes me to see how certain individuals love to spew venom on me and a few of their lowly comments have become a source of constant marvel to me. "I did not beat a retreat" as suggested by Beckham.I had just stepped out of the ground and standing next to it to see the furious kicking of the other players.Some,I dare say have qualified to be shown the red card. As regards my thread titled " Stuck with Warwick" which has proved to be a source of amusement and hilarity to some,would the gathered intellentsia please note that it raises the concerns of a student regarding his accommodation and has no relation whatsoever to the reputation(or the lack of it) of an institution.The title of the particular thread was intended to elicit response from those visiting the site and in a better position to suggest effective remedial measures. I had not intentionally bothered to clear the cloud regarding this because I had presumed that individuals intending to pursue LLM will have the requisite grey particles to read a previous post in context,but my presumtion turned out to be too optimistic.(sigh!)