Hi guys,

Have any foreign students here looked into applying for LLM (master of law in the US or the JD program?

Some states in the US accept LLM as sufficient further education for foreign students others only accept an ABA American approved JD program before students are even able to sit for the bar exam. For example, I was looking into practicing in Michigan or DC and was informed they only take JD or students that have studied from an ABA American approved school.

For this reason, I am seriously considering doing the JD program in the US instead of LLM. However, the thought of going through law school again is not very attractive.
I was told that I MAY be able to get some form of credit if I do the JD program there... ( i.e doing the JD program in 1 or 2 years if we can get credit for some subjects, instead of doing the whole 3 years) I was wondering if anyone has ever considered this and researched into this and if so did you find that they gave you credit? Has anyone been successful in applying for JD program in the US and received credit from their Foreign Law degree?

Would appreciate any thoughts, feedback!

Many schools allow up to one year credit (toward the three year JD) for a foreign law degree if your foreign legal education qualifies under ABA Standard 507(a).

Standard 507 http://www.abanet.org/legaled/standards/2009-2010%20StandardsWebContent/Chapter5.pdf states: "Advanced standing and credit hours granted for foreign study may not exceed one-third of the total required by an admitting school for its J.D. degree".

Hope you find this helpful.

Hi there,

Thank you, yes that is very helpful!!

Just to confirm does that mean the maximum credit I can get as a foreign law grad is one year? Meaning I will have to complete a at least 2 years of JD?

Yes - you are correct.

I know of some law schools that let a foreign student begin as an LLM but then allow a one-time switch to the JD at the end of the year if a certain grade point average is achieved.

Regardless - two years beyond any transfer credit is necessary.

Just to confirm do you mean I can do the LLM ( which takes a year) and then if my grades are high enough they will let me graduate with a JD... So I can finish JD in a year?
OR do you mean that one year of LLM will give me credit towards one year of JD meaning I will still have to do alteast 2 years of JD?
thanks!!

Hi, I'm going to consider applying for a J.D. rather than do an L.L.M. I have heard that it opens work opportunities for foreign students. Due to recession, it has become difficult for L.L.M. students to find employment. I've been doing a bit of research on J.D. now, some Universities offer an official accelerated J.D. course, Eg Northwestern University. Others may grant you a two-year J.D. provided you show them that you have taken enough credits during your law studies in your home country.

That's all I can say right now, if I find out something more I'll definitely post it up.

Best Regards,

To provide you examples from my friends -

Back when I taught in Miami, I had three friends in three years that undertook an LLM degree at UM on campus. Each had a foreign law degree, one from Brasil, one from Colombia, one from Israel.

All three were offered toward the end of their LLM years, that instead of receiving an LLM, count the LLM year toward the JD degree, as well as be allowed to transfer one more year toward the JD degree for the law degree that each had completed back home. Thus, each had the opportunity to obtain the USA JD in two years, one of which was that year that was the original LLM year.

Only one pursued the JD, (the Colombian) because she wanted to take the Florida Bar and move to Miami. She passed the Florida Bar and now works in immigration law focusing on Colombians.

The other two declined to do the extra year for a JD, graduated with the LLM, and took the NY and California Bars respectively. I recall discussing it and them stating that they did not think the extra JD year would help them obtain international trade related work (neither wanted to stay in Miami). After the Bar, both obtained jobs working for companies whose head office is based in their respective countries.

I hope that this helps you in your decision.

Hi there,

Thanks for your post again! That does help.
I've been advised that I may be able to get some credit for LLM so that's assuring. However, not accept any credit towards JD, which is disappointing. So I'm thinking of just opting for the LLM.

Also the people you mention all decided to practice law in their respective countries/areas. Do you know of any foreign grads who completed the LLM and then sat for the bar and are now practicing in the US as a lawyer?

Thanks!

Hi Pratima,

Thanks for your post! I didn't' realize there were law schools that offered the JD for 2 years. That's interesting, I'll have to have a look into that too. Let me know if you find anything on it.

Thanks!

@ Bubz - Hey thanks, also do let me know if you find anyone who after completing an LLM and giving the Bar exam has managed to find good work in the U.S.

I'm in two minds whether to go for a J.D. or a L.L.M.
J.D. means investing more money and time while an L.L.M. is less, but the returns are better on a J.D. than an L.L.M.

I would really like to know the experience of L.L.M. graduates currently working in US....

Over the course of 12 years of teaching graduate programs, I do know a few foreign law graduates who have undertaken the LLM and found work in the USA law field - but here are the caveats:

Firstly, for UK and Australian solicitors, I have seen many employed in NYC large and medium size corporate law firms as less costly alternatives to US associates.

Very few that I personally know from any jurisdiction are doing general "state" law, such as tort or family law - and that is only in servicing their immigrant communities. To provide specific example - I know an Persian/Iranian law grad who received her LLM and passed a Bar. I can't recall which one first- it was not Ca. but by reciprocity she was made eligible to take the Ca. Bar, passed, and now serves the Orange County Persian community.

In general, most of these general law people (I can think of a total of perhaps ten off my head) married an American and thus were staying in the US for other reasons. By example, a few months ago, a Morrocan law graduate of our residential LLM program called me to tell me he was a happily employed lawyer in DC. And.. he also married one of our lecturers and she moved to DC so he moved to DC. However, he is not doing general law though - he is specialized in security law (not securities but security, like risk management and he is in a legal reseacher role at least for the time being). His language abilities were critical in his obtaining that job.

Some of my LLM graduates, residential and online, who are foreign law graduates are now working in the US in "federal" law areas - yet all in specialty fields such as compliance (AML& TF) and international tax (like transfer pricing, but addressing foreign issues).

I know several UM (Miami) foreign law grads working in immigration.

I know several human rights LLM grads who have found work in that field in the US with non-profits (a colleague of mine has a program in Miami and manages to place maybe 15 a year).

I don't know if this provides you any guidance - as opposed to a hodge podge of my experiences.

@ Prof Byrnes - Thankyou so much for these experiences. Would you be knowing anyone who specialized in Tax L.L.M. and then worked in a law firm or company etc?

I would like to work in field of tax law, but would you suggest doing a Tax L.L.M. or a General L.L.M.

Regards,

Yes, but in international and corporate areas though.

In fact just got off the phone with a Brasilian law graduate who has a Tax degree from PUC (BH), a finance degree from IBMEC (RJ) and just graduated with her US tax LLM - she has just received her permanent employed for transfer pricing for a large bank software company, after a three month trial period.

But for domestic US tax, like individual? Not in the US - not that I am aware of. Doesn't mean it does not happen - I just can't recall any cases. Again - except for those serving their own immigrant communities. Then I know people that have done so. These people are entrepreneurs - running their own firms.

Interestingly, I know several foreign LLBs that have earned US tax LLMs and are using them overseas to service US clients. What I really find interesting though are India LLBs are undertaking US tax LLMs, and other areas, leveraging them for BPO/LPO work in India.

My own experience: I am starting next Friday a program fo 30 Indian students for estate planning compliance and next year starting October I have 50 already committed for my Masters from just one institution (these are MBA students though - not LLBs actually). As far as I am aware, all of these students will be remaining in India for employment with the companies paying their tuition in their MBA program, but they (their employers I guess) wouldn't be spending the extra thousands in tuition if they didn't perceive a strong benefit.

General LLM or Tax LLM - for all my applicants I tell them to speak to their employer or intended employer and focus their education on the needs of the employment situation. If you want to become eligible for a US Bar, a general one is better as basically it is a one year Bar course to prepare you and fits into the DC, NY and Ca bar requirements.

I had to make this choice 20 years ago when I moved to Europe as young lad. I doubled down and did international tax, enough domestic to be conversant, and enough local civil law courses not to get into trouble (via Amsterdam and I had to learn Dutch because many were not in English). I did not continue to get my Dutch LLB (a "mr") equivalent. That worked for me for what I wanted to do as an international focused counselor - but I knew exactly what I wanted to do.

Maybe you should back up and start with "what do I want to accomplish?" and build from that as your starting point. Do you want to counsel US tax in the US? and Is that the best leveraging of your current skills (taking into account you'll have to add to them for US tax knowledge)?

Thankyou for your advice. I will keep these points in mind,

Best regards,

My pleasure.

By the way - what about contacting Indian tax firms in the US such as Nishith Desai? Nishith is very well known - he's been on the international tax scene since at least 1994 when I first undertook work in India.

And many have followed in his footsteps since then. Perhaps this is your avenue....

Hi,
Just wanted to confirm what you meant in your post when you referred to reciprocity?
'but by reciprocity she was made eligible to take the Ca. Bar, passed, and now serves the Orange County Persian community. '
Thanks!

Some states grant eligibility toward the Bar at some level if you are a member of another Bar, such as by examples: qualifying to sit a "lawyers" exam, qualifying to sit the regular examination, or even not requiring an examination.

Some states do not require that the Bar membership even be of a US state or territory (the USA has 56 Bar jurisidctions actually being the 590 states, DC, Guam, USVI, and the other territories/Commonwealths). By example, see California's bar eligibility rules regarding persons admitted to practice in a non-US jurisdiction: http://www.calbar.ca.gov/calbar/pdfs/admissions/77sf.pdf

These scenarios are generally referred to as "reciprocity" even though the rules governing such eligibility do not necessarily require any reciprocal relationship between or amongst the Bars. So by further example, though California may grant an Indian attorney eligibility to sit its Bar, India does not reciprocally grant the same.

You can read about each of the 56 Bar authorities varying requirements and potential for such reciprocals via the free downlaodable 2010 PDF published (annually) by the National Association of Bar Examinars - http://www.ncbex.org/comprehensive-guide-to-bar-admissions/

Hope you find this information useful.

Oh Ok, so if you pass the bar in one state you may be eligible to sit for the bar or automatically be admitted in another state?

Just to respond to some emails that I received about LLM candidiates transferring into a JD program, the ABA Interpretation of its Standard that I referred to above states the following:

Interpretation 304-7
Subject to the provisions of this Interpretation, a law school shall require a student who has completed work in an LL.M. or other post J.D. program to complete all of the work for which it will award the J.D. degree following the students regular enrollment in the schools J.D. program. A law school may accept transfer credit as otherwise allowed by the Standards.

A law school may award credit toward a J.D. degree for work undertaken in a LL.M. or other post J.D. program offered by it or another law school if:
(a) that work was the successful completion of a J.D. course while the student was enrolled in a post-J.D. law program;
(b) the law school at which the course was taken has a grading system for LL.M. students in J.D. courses that is comparable to the grading system for J.D. students in the course, and
(c) the law school accepting the transfer credit will require that the student successfully complete a course of study that satistifies the requirements of Standards 302(a)-(b) and
that meets all of the schools requirement for the awarding of the J.D. degree.

I hope this clarifies your questions. Of course, you should verify each school's specific policy before you apply/enrol.